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Old 01-07-2012, 10:29 PM
 
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Better off with .gov care than what is going on with Corporate Insurance .com care.

But since .com has bought and paid for .gov laws and enforcement to favor them -- all the rest of .US will continue to be screwed.

But at this point, since .com insurance is getting so bad at getting the doctors paid (all typically over 90 days, now -- many climbing to 120 days), the whole industry will likely want to dump accepting any .com insurance and go to cash -- which will be better for all of .us.

Why did anyone think that doing anything so stupid as paying an insurance company an extra 10 to 20% overhead + profit for running up the bills (and then not paying them) would be a good idea?

Sooner it breaks, the better.

Burn, baby, burn.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,446,455 times
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I don't understand why so many people have such a problem with this very simple principle:

Americans believe they are entitled to more health care than they can afford to pay for. It doesn't matter who writes the check---you, your government, or your insurance company---when there is not enough money, you can no longer demand bloated and expensive medical treatment and procedures. You'll have to start making decisions about what medical care you can afford, and resigning yourself to the fact that some day you will get sick and suffer discomfort and die. You can't keep borrowing non-existent money to buy immortality.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,564 posts, read 7,417,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
The Employer mandate doesn't work nor does the individual mandate, in every modern society the mandate is with the Government. It would be a great thing if employers could forget about health care and concentrate on business
Getting employers out of health care insurance is the first step in creating a competitive market for health insurance. This also would eliminate arguments that employers are not hiring because of uncertainty with future health insurance premiums. Cost control and service improvement will only occur if true competition is taking place both among providers and payors.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,993 posts, read 16,466,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't understand why so many people have such a problem with this very simple principle:

Americans believe they are entitled to more health care than they can afford to pay for. It doesn't matter who writes the check---you, your government, or your insurance company---when there is not enough money, you can no longer demand bloated and expensive medical treatment and procedures. You'll have to start making decisions about what medical care you can afford, and resigning yourself to the fact that some day you will get sick and suffer discomfort and die. You can't keep borrowing non-existent money to buy immortality.
I'm as conservative as they come, at least among my age bracket. But at the same time, I do believe our society can afford at least the basics with regards to health and longevity. The current health care system is totally out of whack with regards to expense, so it makes it completely unaffordable for the average wage earner. It's a market out of equilibrium. Something about that has to change, but I am no economist. I do believe in progress though. Health care expenses rising so drastically over the past few decades is not progress though, but it has been very profitable for somebody. Judging by the number of doctors I know leaving the profession, I don't think they have been on the winning side of the equation...

If the consumer is unhappy, and the provider of the service is unhappy... Makes ya think someone needs to take a closer look, correct?
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:24 AM
 
14 posts, read 14,923 times
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Default Not sure about it in USA without real changes

It think it is possible in countries with a lot of people contributing to the system. Canada, Australia and New Zealand comes to my mind. With 40% or maybe even more people not paying any taxes and even more people being on government support or working for government it will be very hard. Real social changes, tough immigration law would help. No politician will be so brave to do anything about it. I hope for our country to be great again, but another Greece is also possible. And you being from Chicago know how corrupt politicians are in Cook county...
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,517 posts, read 21,977,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1970 View Post
It think it is possible in countries with a lot of people contributing to the system. Canada, Australia and New Zealand comes to my mind. With 40% or maybe even more people not paying any taxes and even more people being on government support or working for government it will be very hard. Real social changes, tough immigration law would help. No politician will be so brave to do anything about it. I hope for our country to be great again, but another Greece is also possible. And you being from Chicago know how corrupt politicians are in Cook county...
Greece and in fact all of europe are not the result of social programs, the same banks than ran our economy into the ground were engaged in enormous currency speculation. The 1% are long past the point where they can cdontrol their greed
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,409,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
*EDIT* @CAVA1990: Modern Canada is FAR from ethnically homogeneous, but what makes it viable here is that there isn't a great class divide between our different ethnic groups. The American issue that prevents this system from being established is class. Class is associated with ethnicity in America, but class is the underlying issue, and it hasn't been ameliorated because America doesn't have a comprehensive welfare state, just a patch work welfare system. This is another systemic reason why a policy like single payer health care, which comes from another culture, isn't politically viable in the US.
I still think race has a lot to do with our stinginess. Roosevelt was only able to enact The New Deal by restricting it to whites only. Johnson sold The Great Society through the plight of poor white Appalachians. In fact, much of the backlash over social programs (including government health benefits) has come about since it no longer became possible to restrict them to whites. We have a very strong belief in only helping "the deserving poor", generally those who look and act most like we do.

Another difference between how you in Canada and how we in the US treat ethnic groups is you perceive them as having been invited in. Here we see African Americans as the descendents of slaves foisted on us by Southern planters and Hispanics as illegals who've snuck in. This has made us much less amenable to sharing resources with the less fortunate members of those groups.

Our politics and public policy attitudes are very much driven by ethno-centrism.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:28 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,335,019 times
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Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Getting employers out of health care insurance is the first step in creating a competitive market for health insurance.
Or even better -- ending the entire Health Insurance Scam industry.

We would be far better off with faster, high-quality, and cheaper health care rather than coming up with yet more scams for business folks to get to make some extra bank on the side.

Then we do not even need health insurance.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,993 posts, read 16,466,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Here we see African Americans as the descendents of slaves foisted on us by Southern planters and Hispanics as illegals who've snuck in. This has made us much less amenable to sharing resources with the less fortunate members of those groups.
It doesn't help when you see said disenfranchised folks lugging around six or seven kids. I cannot afford to have children comfortably, and how could I, I'm paying for everyone elses That is not about race, it is about common sense and good judgment. Some folks are simply poor due to their own actions. Sharing resources with SOME of them would only encourage more irresponsible behavior. How the illegals get on the dole of the public dollar is as much a mystery as it is infuriating as well.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,409,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
It doesn't help when you see said disenfranchised folks lugging around six or seven kids. I cannot afford to have children comfortably, and how could I, I'm paying for everyone elses That is not about race, it is about common sense and good judgment. Some folks are simply poor due to their own actions. Sharing resources with SOME of them would only encourage more irresponsible behavior. How the illegals get on the dole of the public dollar is as much a mystery as it is infuriating as well.
Be honest. What do those people look like in your head when you think about them? I'll bet not like you and your family, right?
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