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Old 01-23-2012, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,556 posts, read 7,408,480 times
Reputation: 8042

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
"Healthcare" as defined by the AMA is a system that transfers the wealth of others into the pockets of it's members. The US citizenry has been the victim of a medical system that puts profit above all things medicinal. Too many drugs, too much testing, needless elective surgery, and huge caseloads, are the things that Doctors/hospitals need to support their growing wealth, and the insurance industry has been there to enable this financial growth not to mention their own growth.

The fact of it's rising cost is no reason for these folks to change a system that enriches them. Some posters have mentioned the obvious problem of over treatment as one reason for the increases in cost, others have spoke to the problems associated with an uneven distribution of cost and care, and the complaints of government intervention as an added inflator of cost and inefficiency are also brought up. The fact that all these observations are valid doesn't negate the reality of our collective exclusion from the decision making process that would allow for any improvements.

This exclusion is the real problem, whether it's health care, the military, education, or a sundry of other costs we the taxpayers are asked to bear. We can expect more of the same unless we find a way to address this lopsided political/corporate power versus our own. We can see the futility in voting because the truth of both parties is that they are working for these cabals of thieves that have cut us out of the real political process.
So what do you recommend? In my opinion, health reform has to get out in the open without the political polarization that has destroyed every effort in Congress that has attempted to change the existing system. Start with looking at what works and doesn't work in other countries. Reduce what is covered by health insurance so that people make more consumer decisions. Medicare needs to eliminate the abuse that is costing taxpayers billions of dollars.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 19,473,496 times
Reputation: 3712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
You wanta talk evidence?

How about looking at family members who get it there cheaper than they can get it here...?

I don't care what 'some report' by 'some group' I have not vetted says when I can see THE TRUTH!


Have a nice day.
anecdotal stories isn't evidence. empirical stastitical studies with thousands of responses is.

you see the truth you would like to see.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:00 PM
 
4,719 posts, read 3,748,117 times
Reputation: 14325
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
So what do you recommend? In my opinion, health reform has to get out in the open without the political polarization that has destroyed every effort in Congress that has attempted to change the existing system. Start with looking at what works and doesn't work in other countries. Reduce what is covered by health insurance so that people make more consumer decisions. Medicare needs to eliminate the abuse that is costing taxpayers billions of dollars.
Congress has but one duty, that is, to fulfill the obligation to their puppet masters, period. The masters are those who stand to benefit from the status quo in US society no matter who gets mugged in the process. I have a hard time believing that American's have moved on to other pressing problems here with the expectation of finding solutions in the aftermath of the biggest transfer of power we have ever witnessed. People with no power usually don't make the rules....

After the rape by wall streeters, a shot heard round the world, are we to believe that WE will have any say in the future about anything? The back and forth in our two party system with regard to health care is nothing more than a contrived stalemate. After all, both parties are in the pockets of the powerful and feel no obligation to the majority of US citizens they are sworn to serve. The US health care system as it stands is working as it was meant to, that's to say that the money is siphoned upward to the biggest and most powerful interests in the game. I don't believe for a minute that any REAL attempt to fix this system has, or ever will have, any true support from politicians. Insurance companies are nothing more than banks today, the revenue they have been generating from the health care side of the house is growing faster than some small nations annual GDP.

These folks are not interested in any change that may curtail their profit, they don't want the things we want in our health care system, it looks like a health care system to us but to them it's just a revenue machine, the super sized hospitals, Doctor's living large, Universities making a bundle on Medical schools, there is just too much $$$$ in the system to believe that it was ever meant to be a real CARE construct. MY recommendation would be to raise the political consciousness of all American's to the level that they finally understand the difference between those who have OUR best interests at heart and those that simply serve the status quo because it benefits them. Health care is just one of many big problems we face today, all the things that WE would love to see come to fruition probably won't, why? Because WE aren't the power in our own country, it's the old twisted Golden Rule-He with the gold makes the rules.

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but in my opinion it's the reason that things don't work here as well as they should, to think that our nation just needs a tuneup of sorts is simply fooling ourselves...
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,556 posts, read 7,408,480 times
Reputation: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Congress has but one duty, that is, to fulfill the obligation to their puppet masters, period. The masters are those who stand to benefit from the status quo in US society no matter who gets mugged in the process. I have a hard time believing that American's have moved on to other pressing problems here with the expectation of finding solutions in the aftermath of the biggest transfer of power we have ever witnessed. People with no power usually don't make the rules....

After the rape by wall streeters, a shot heard round the world, are we to believe that WE will have any say in the future about anything? The back and forth in our two party system with regard to health care is nothing more than a contrived stalemate. After all, both parties are in the pockets of the powerful and feel no obligation to the majority of US citizens they are sworn to serve. The US health care system as it stands is working as it was meant to, that's to say that the money is siphoned upward to the biggest and most powerful interests in the game. I don't believe for a minute that any REAL attempt to fix this system has, or ever will have, any true support from politicians. Insurance companies are nothing more than banks today, the revenue they have been generating from the health care side of the house is growing faster than some small nations annual GDP.

These folks are not interested in any change that may curtail their profit, they don't want the things we want in our health care system, it looks like a health care system to us but to them it's just a revenue machine, the super sized hospitals, Doctor's living large, Universities making a bundle on Medical schools, there is just too much $$$$ in the system to believe that it was ever meant to be a real CARE construct. MY recommendation would be to raise the political consciousness of all American's to the level that they finally understand the difference between those who have OUR best interests at heart and those that simply serve the status quo because it benefits them. Health care is just one of many big problems we face today, all the things that WE would love to see come to fruition probably won't, why? Because WE aren't the power in our own country, it's the old twisted Golden Rule-He with the gold makes the rules.

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but in my opinion it's the reason that things don't work here as well as they should, to think that our nation just needs a tuneup of sorts is simply fooling ourselves...
So another conspiracy theorist! And your recommendation, "would be to raise the political consciousness of all American's to the level that they finally understand the difference between those who have OUR best interests at heart and those that simply serve the status quo because it benefits them." So once you have, "raised the political consciousness of all Americans," then what? How will we know the the political consciousness of all Americans is high enough? Your theory is an old one, that Big Brother controls everything and it all a conspiracy to get us, the little guys. Sure, there are special interest in all aspects of society who don't want to see the status quo changed. That's reality. Health reform will not happen overnight. It is too complicated for most Americans and most members of Congress to understand. Special interests will lobby against change. Health care does not fit well into the free market. Conservatives will fight for less government involvement. Liberals will fight for increased coverage. Reform is between a rock and a hard place. What will eventually drive change is the damage health care spending is doing to the US competitiveness in the global economy. This is the same thing that will eventually drive change in the US dependence on foreign oil. The US can't continue to spend money on oil, healthcare, education, prisons and the military that our economy is not generating. This country was spoiled in the years after WWII until about 1974. Then reality struck with the combination of the Arab oil embargo and foreign competition. Since then, our economy has gradually eroded with only the false promises of the housing and dot.com bubbles to prop things up. While once the world was dependent on the US for its manufacturing capabilities, the rest of the world has caught up and has a lot more room to grow. This country needs to get spending on the five items above under control to compete globally in the future.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:59 PM
 
4,719 posts, read 3,748,117 times
Reputation: 14325
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
So another conspiracy theorist! And your recommendation, "would be to raise the political consciousness of all American's to the level that they finally understand the difference between those who have OUR best interests at heart and those that simply serve the status quo because it benefits them." So once you have, "raised the political consciousness of all Americans," then what? How will we know the the political consciousness of all Americans is high enough? Your theory is an old one, that Big Brother controls everything and it all a conspiracy to get us, the little guys. Sure, there are special interest in all aspects of society who don't want to see the status quo changed. That's reality. Health reform will not happen overnight. It is too complicated for most Americans and most members of Congress to understand. Special interests will lobby against change. Health care does not fit well into the free market. Conservatives will fight for less government involvement. Liberals will fight for increased coverage. Reform is between a rock and a hard place. What will eventually drive change is the damage health care spending is doing to the US competitiveness in the global economy. This is the same thing that will eventually drive change in the US dependence on foreign oil. The US can't continue to spend money on oil, healthcare, education, prisons and the military that our economy is not generating. This country was spoiled in the years after WWII until about 1974. Then reality struck with the combination of the Arab oil embargo and foreign competition. Since then, our economy has gradually eroded with only the false promises of the housing and dot.com bubbles to prop things up. While once the world was dependent on the US for its manufacturing capabilities, the rest of the world has caught up and has a lot more room to grow. This country needs to get spending on the five items above under control to compete globally in the future.
Well, the term "conspiracy" lets me know that you are one of the millions of American's to buy into the ruse of all things being true to their ostensible image. Let me just state the obvious, there is NO secret conspiracy involved in what goes on in front of your face. Everyday our government and it's allies in the corporate world conduct their business out in the open, the history of the sum of their dealings are well documented, the "liberals" and "conservatives" you mentioned are both quite well known for their documented support for government bailouts of the wealthy class, they both have a long track record of support for wars that enrich the few at the expense of the lower classes, they have very little concern for those on the bottom nor the middle for that matter.

Health care "is too complicated" for the US congress? This nation has launched high tech space based missions of far greater complexity than health care, this government has prosecuted wars of unimaginable scale and complexity all over the globe, it manages one of the most complex governments anywhere in the world, you make it seem as though the huge mystery of what constitutes a fair system will always elude the best and brightest we have. Competition? Globalism isn't something that 'happened to America', America's corporate capital began to migrate offshore in the fifties, capital seeks the lowest operating cost as a matter of theoretical principle. American's have said that they favor this system, so, all that is implied in this system must be tolerated-or changed.

What would we change it to? Possibly a mixed economy of "ism's" that would better serve the majority of us rather than the few of us. We like to think of ourselves as the lucky ones who gain from our particular economic system, in truth capitalism favors those who control the capital, is that a conspiracy theory? No, it isn't, is it fair? No. When I stated that I would like to see the US populace make an attempt to raise it's political consciousness I never felt that my view was some far fetched "theory", you imply that anyone who can look at a much larger picture is missing the nuances of the "reality"at hand. When I say that the reality of the ostensible political construct has another side I'm not hallucinating, I'm simply being practical in my thinking, we do not live in a society that considers all players as equal contributors when decisions are made, "special interests" are not a separate segment of the US political reality, they ARE the US political reality.....
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