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Old 01-20-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
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Well, there are many on here that swear that everything is rosy for them, plenty of high-tech jobs with fantastic pay but perhaps they are the lucky few.

U.S. losing high-tech manufacturing jobs to Asia - The Washington Post


I think jobs in science and engineering will continue to move to cheaper markets, those that remain here will be for much lower wages than now.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:23 PM
 
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I'm thinking that jobs have always been moving/migrating for the last two centuries. Our current job situation in the US is simply the result of new markets opening around the globe, these newcomers to the world of producer/consumer nations are in the position that this country (the U.S.) was in the late forties and early fifties. That's to say that they now have consumer credit in place along with the fact of their growing manufacturing base. America could never have sustained the kind of economic growth we saw after WW2 without doing so on the backs of those lesser developed nations, and of course we would have been faced with the eventual reality that they would never allow their natural resources to slip away without getting some of that economic activity benefit for themselves.

Globalism is not some kind of economic accident, nor is it necessarily the work of evil folks scheming on overtime, even though it looks that way often enough. It does have an element of greed, and it does contain a focus on the bottom line as gospel. Most countries want their share of the worlds economic activity, most humans want to live in decent housing and eat on a regular basis,these two desires plus health care and education are seen as the tools that help poor people everywhere dig themselves out of poverty. It could be that the nation state as we know it may be an outdated economic concept, today's multi national corporations are looking more and more like sovereign states. Today the various CEO's of the worlds largest companies when traveling abroad are given the same treatment once thought of as being reserved for heads of state, and these corporations have no special allegiance to the nation of their origin, they think in global terms, jobs, whether they be U.S., French, Asian, Russian, Brazilian, are not seen as something pertinent to their bottom line, they are only an integral aspect of a necessary part of their worldwide strategy.

Whenever and wherever they can corporations have eliminated the human element in their overall view toward a more efficient and profitable outcome, machines are now the new proletariat. Of course all of this is relatively new thinking and therefore hasn't stood the test of time, it could very well be that this utopian brave new world of capital driven economies are also an outmoded model of human sustainment, we will know soon enough whether this country can continue to prosper in this way. In the meantime we'll see an unrelenting march toward capital efficiency no matter who gets burned along the way....
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: NJ
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jertheber,

Excellent post. We should be viewing what is happening as natural, and viewing the 50s and 60s as the anomoly.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:25 PM
Status: "Enjoying the winter" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
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On the other hand, those lower wage assembly line jobs are being replaced somewhat by more higher paying jobs in transportation and logistics, longshoremen, shipping crane operators, trucking, inventory control and warehousing when the items are imported. I've never seen statistics that
compare the net loss/gain of domestic jobs but there are a lot of containers coming into the west coast ports from China, and being shipped by train/truck all over the U.S.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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What I'm reading is... America has seen a decline in manufacturing employment, and China has engineers. How the two are connected is beyond me... They can spend all the money they want, but they are a bottom feeder and the world knows it. Sure they can grow and improve, but so can the U.S., and faster.

What's interesting is they mentioned a nearly 1/3rd decline in "high tech" manufacturing jobs over the past decade. Isn't this exactly what technology was supposed to do??? That is, eliminate jobs? We all knew it was coming, so don't act surprised, and don't take it as a sign that China is winning. What is happening is technology is improving the efficiency if every worker, so fewer are required to accomplish the same level of productivity. If we would like to continue to have a manufacturing sector in a world populated by hungry slave wage nations like China, this is a must. I feel bad for those who will be displaced, but it's better than loosing our entire industrial capacity. Manufacturing won't be employing 25% of our population ever again in this country. That doesn't mean we are losing the game though. Not by a long shot.

"Within five years, the cost gap between the United States and China to produce many goods consumed in North America will be virtually closed, according to a recent report from the Boston Consulting Group."

I think this about sums up how we are doing
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: NJ
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Even w/o a wage gap, Asia will boom for decades to come, as they are building a middle class. We may scoff at their mfg wages, but for them, it is a GIANT step up the lifestyle scale.
The continent growing a middle class will, naturally, be where corps seek to grow.

Automation will continue reducing mfg employment, but it will spread to reducing even greater, retail employment in the decades to come, and food service workers in hospitals, nursing homes, etc. Not so much in food prep, but in distribution. Robots will be bringing meals to rooms within 5-10 years.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
Well, there are many on here that swear that everything is rosy for them, plenty of high-tech jobs with fantastic pay but perhaps they are the lucky few.

U.S. losing high-tech manufacturing jobs to Asia - The Washington Post


I think jobs in science and engineering will continue to move to cheaper markets, those that remain here will be for much lower wages than now.
I must be one of the lucky few, then.

I get three to four job offers per month. They say my skills are niche. Often people wonder how in the world I accumulated them.

The reason - I didn't boo freaking hoo when my job was being continually offshored. I stepped up and asked myself the question - what the <expletive> can I do which will make me always attractive to the corporations, so that I can continue to dictate the level of salary that I want, and even have the nerve to cuss at some of the recruiters.

Time to go buy a new suit and then tip the waitress 30 bucks. Keep complaining about "cheaper" countries, Champs
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
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@Antlered, good for you! but don't gloat on your laurels just yet... eventually the outsourcing thing will catch up with you as well and then you will lose your job!

If you think you are so intelligent that someone in India cannot do your job for half your salary you are just wrong! It's just a matter of time
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
@Antlered, good for you! but don't gloat on your laurels just yet... eventually the outsourcing thing will catch up with you as well and then you will lose your job!

If you think you are so intelligent that someone in India cannot do your job for half your salary you are just wrong! It's just a matter of time
There are plenty of jobs that won't move offshore. Maybe he has one of those.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Even w/o a wage gap, Asia will boom for decades to come, as they are building a middle class. We may scoff at their mfg wages, but for them, it is a GIANT step up the lifestyle scale.
The continent growing a middle class will, naturally, be where corps seek to grow.
I think you should take a look at some pictures of the cities in China with the highest concentration of manufacturing jobs. I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in a place where dumping toxic waste in the river is the norm. A place where the smog is so thick you could chop it with a machete... A place where workers are being required to sign contracts saying they will not commit suicide... Manufacturing in America is a bit more pricey because manufacturers actually have to abide by certain ethical standards. Cancer rates and birth defects are becoming a very real problem in China, and I could point one in the direction of the culprit. They are making some very significant sacrifices in the name of capitalism (although I wouldn't call it that) and a growing middle class. A middle class still unable to consume the products they manufacturer, but maybe they'll get there some day.
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