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Old 01-28-2012, 09:23 PM
 
143 posts, read 346,420 times
Reputation: 177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydive Outlaw View Post
The problem with "fixing" the tax code now - in 2012 is:


Now that (in the last 30 years), the economic elite which includes the top 4% - in the US already own over 78% of all existing wealth (money, bank accounts, stocks, mutual funds, real estate, etc etc) and have positioned themselves to earn over 50% of all income. . . . .

It does not matter what changes are made to the tax code at any time from this point forward. The existing wealth and resources will still stay in the hands of those that posses it all - even more so if the tax code is changed and the middle class is convinced that those changes will benefit them.

The dynamics that enable there to be such a vast difference in terms of income and owned wealth in the US will not change because of a change in the tax code. The top 4% already made their money and secured the assets and wealth they have before any changes to the tax code would tax place and changing the tax code will not cause a shift in that in any way unless of course their money and wealth was just directly confiscated by the government, which would never happen.

How the economic elite are taxed at this point is irrelevant since any changes in taxes in the future will only affect future income and not the wealth that was already obtained.
Back in the 1920's over 90% of the rich had inherited their wealth. Today, over 90% of the rich did NOT inherit their wealth, in fact only 8% even came from the upper class. The increased importance of the internet and computers have made physical and financial assets less and less important. What is important now is an individuals ideas, their mind. That's how you get rich, by coming up with an idea for something people want, something that they judge makes their lives better at a price they are willing to pay. An it's a concept that all of you that are complaining about how much someone else has need to get through your head.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: NJ
29,529 posts, read 34,010,786 times
Reputation: 21943
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i do think capital gains rates and income should be the same. but it should be flat across the board and income rates should be brought down to capital gains, not the other way around. no deductions (like dependents, mortgage interest, 401k's).

its kind of funny to suggest the tax code favors the rich, since half of americans dont pay federal income tax. the tax code favors politicians.
i didnt touch on the corportate income tax here so i will address it now. the corporate income tax rate should be 0%. there is no point in taxing corporate income, just tax it as regular income when it goes to people.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:59 PM
 
455 posts, read 1,155,356 times
Reputation: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i didnt touch on the corportate income tax here so i will address it now. the corporate income tax rate should be 0%. there is no point in taxing corporate income, just tax it as regular income when it goes to people.
Been saying that for years. Corporations should be operating based on what makes most economic sense on where to invest their money. With tax deductions, credits etc all it does is distort their investment choices. They might invest in something that doesn't make economic sense because they want the deductions or credits. One good example is corporations investing their money overseas in order to not pay the 35% corp tax. Their money might have been better invested in the USA but not if they have to pay the income tax. That ultimately screws the average worker who might have worked at the investment asset.

The important thing to remember is that you can only do three things with your money: save, invest or spend. You should only be taxed when you spend the money because saving and investing your money grows the economy. This is how the USA got so wealthy in the first place: we exported lots of stuff overseas and saved + invested our surplus.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:08 PM
 
10,135 posts, read 24,684,122 times
Reputation: 8330
No its not. the tax code has become a welfare system for the poor. what nonsense. We have one of the highest tax rates in the World and 49% of our population pays zippo, nada, zero money in taxes. The wealthy pay 90% of the tax. Pure propaganda.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:11 PM
 
2,592 posts, read 4,858,706 times
Reputation: 1943
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i do think capital gains rates and income should be the same. but it should be flat across the board and income rates should be brought down to capital gains, not the other way around. no deductions (like dependents, mortgage interest, 401k's).

its kind of funny to suggest the tax code favors the rich, since half of americans dont pay federal income tax. the tax code favors politicians.
I would agree with you. We need some sort of flat tax across the board and everyone should be somewhat involved. And many of the rich people have already paid tax on the money they invested. So basically taxing the capital gains tax is just double tax. If the capital gains tax gets too high it won't be worth it to invest in anything.

Tax deductions are a joke...I can write it off it I bought a blue car but not a white one. All those tax deductions do support the rich though or people who can push the politicians where they need to. Although if you create enough poor you can "buy" votes by giving them freebies and they don't pay for anything. Do you think they will ever vote their entitlements away. Just ask Greece.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: USA
702 posts, read 1,028,029 times
Reputation: 651
Anybody read the Fair Tax Book? It's an idea that's been around awhile. While not perfect, I think its the best idea around. As long as it's implemented and enforced in its entirety, with no exceptions or loopholes for special interests.

It gets rid of the income tax, corporate tax, SS tax, and all other forms of taxes, except the sales tax. It's basically just a straight comsumption tax. You, the individual, have total control of your taxes. You want to pay less, then consume less. You want to pay more, then consume more. There's even a "prebate" for individuals to cover the basics.

Now, a lot of people I've talked to about it immediately knock the idea. Without even reading the book or articles about it. Most politicians and vested interest groups don't like it, primarily because it upsets the apple-cart that they now control.

It's amazing to see how much we're paying in taxes and how vicious our government has become when you don't pay as much taxes as they want you to. To think that we fought the British over what .... something like 3 to 4 percent taxation?!
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,794 posts, read 17,546,289 times
Reputation: 9424
Simplified tax code:

Under $50,000: No need to file

From $50,000 to $100,000: 15% of ALL income

From $100,000 to $500,000: 20% of ALL income

From $500,000 to $1,000,000: 25% of ALL income

Above $1,000,000: Rate increases by an additional 1% for every $10,000,000 income increase up to a maximum rate of 90% which would kick in @ an income of $901 MILLION. Those poor almost billionaires would just have to make do with $90 million! This would bring unimaginable suffering to the big money folks, but I'm betting that they'd live thru it.
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,719 posts, read 27,159,739 times
Reputation: 9241
Cosmic - your plan is not workable from 500K to 1M range. Make that range go to 10M. And above that? Your proposal is draconian enough that the few people who had the potential for say $500M in income would never earn that income in the US. They would most certainly find a way to hide/defer/modify their income in such a way that they aren't subject to your rates.

That's the problem with very high income tax rates - they end up failing because of the disincentive to have income.

Oh - one more thing about your plan - no deductions please. For anything.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:59 PM
 
484 posts, read 1,441,574 times
Reputation: 1448
You're all dreaming. It's not rich or poor people or some political party that's against a simplified tax system. It's the people who WANT a complicated tax system that are against it: Accountants, makers of tax software, and folks like H&R Block.

All of them would instantly be out of business if the income tax code were simplified. How many hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs are created by virtue the complex tax code? This massive industry will fight tooth and nail against simplification.

Even the IRS employee base benefits from having a complex system. If you disallowed alll deductions (which is where most complexity lies), more individual audits could be done by computer. Many human auditers would be out of a job.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,794 posts, read 17,546,289 times
Reputation: 9424
josh u wrote:
Many human auditers would be out of a job.
There really is a God!
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