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Old 03-19-2012, 06:14 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
15,206 posts, read 11,955,347 times
Reputation: 10825

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pear Martini View Post
my response in blue
I'm not sure what you are suggesting. That we allow everyone who comes here citizenship? That was easy to do back when there were no social services. Back then, if you were poor, you starved, you didn't have health care. Your kids didn't go to school, they worked to support the family. If you came to this country, you were not a burden because you were not offered any services that other people had to pay for. Again, what would happen if we changed our policy to allow everyone and anyone who came, citizenship? I'll tell you what would happen. Our system of social services, education, health care, ets, would be overwhelmed. Taxes would have to skyrocket just to cover all of our new citizens. We are left with the choice of allowing more people in OR taking care of the ones we already have.

I am not trying to be mean here. We already have a MASSIVE debt just paying for the people who are already here. If you have a suggestion for how we pay for tens of millions of new (mostly low wage) citizens, I am all ears.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:19 AM
 
395 posts, read 645,794 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
What line of jobs are going to see salaries/demand grow in the future and which jobs do you think are going to decline in terms of salaries and demand.

My view:

Growth -
Healthcare - Pharmacists, Doctors, Nurses

Decline -
Tech - Software Engineers, Systems Anaylsts (simply no need for these jobs in the US, all can be shipped offshore)
Education - Teachers (budget cuts in the future)
Admin type work - call center staff etc. (whatever is remaining)
Accountants - all this number crunching work is going to low cost countries
Real estate agents - will no longer need them, this role is going to become obsolete
Investment banker in a second world nation transitioning to become a developed nation.

Strippers that dance for the investment bankers.....hahaha....gotta have a sense of humor!
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:21 AM
 
4,441 posts, read 3,187,535 times
Reputation: 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
I'm not sure what you are suggesting. That we allow everyone who comes here citizenship? That was easy to do back when there were no social services. Back then, if you were poor, you starved, you didn't have health care. Your kids didn't go to school, they worked to support the family. If you came to this country, you were not a burden because you were not offered any services that other people had to pay for. Again, what would happen if we changed our policy to allow everyone and anyone who came, citizenship? I'll tell you what would happen. Our system of social services, education, health care, ets, would be overwhelmed. Taxes would have to skyrocket just to cover all of our new citizens. We are left with the choice of allowing more people in OR taking care of the ones we already have.

I am not trying to be mean here. We already have a MASSIVE debt just paying for the people who are already here. If you have a suggestion for how we pay for tens of millions of new (mostly low wage) citizens, I am all ears.
I think what he is suggesting is that most US citizens believe a lot of nonsense and that you should try and see more than one side of an issue. I have seen it reported that many illegals pay taxes and social security, but avoid collecting benefits because it might draw attention to them. Why don't people ever focus on that?

Back when the unemployment rate was 5% people said that if things got bad enough, Americans would work the same jobs that illegals did at that time. When unemployment hit 10% the Farm Workers advertised they would provide jobs to anyone. No one took them up on that offer. Sure we could triple the wages, but that would drive the farmers out of business as more produce was imported from cheaper sources.

My wife works in a school in the suburbs of Chicago, the vast majority of the people who are on the free lunch program are not illegals, most are white people. Yeah, we got problems. And as usual, we got scapegoats!
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
15,206 posts, read 11,955,347 times
Reputation: 10825
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
I think what he is suggesting is that most US citizens believe a lot of nonsense and that you should try and see more than one side of an issue. I have seen it reported that many illegals pay taxes and social security, but avoid collecting benefits because it might draw attention to them. Why don't people ever focus on that?

Back when the unemployment rate was 5% people said that if things got bad enough, Americans would work the same jobs that illegals did at that time. When unemployment hit 10% the Farm Workers advertised they would provide jobs to anyone. No one took them up on that offer. Sure we could triple the wages, but that would drive the farmers out of business as more produce was imported from cheaper sources.

My wife works in a school in the suburbs of Chicago, the vast majority of the people who are on the free lunch program are not illegals, most are white people. Yeah, we got problems. And as usual, we got scapegoats!
The reality is that each child we educate costs $10k per year. In NJ's poor neighborhoods, it costs over $20k per child per year. We need more immigrants that are going to pay more that they use, and less that are going to use more than they pay. A family with 3 children will cost $30k-$60k per year. And that doesn't even cover their health care. How many illegal immigrants pay anywhere NEAR $30-$60k in taxes??? This is simple economics and simple math. There is no way to make it work so that we can open up our borders. It would bankrupt us. Of course, then the immigration would stop because we would be no different than the countries these people are trying to escape.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:19 AM
 
4,441 posts, read 3,187,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
The reality is that each child we educate costs $10k per year. In NJ's poor neighborhoods, it costs over $20k per child per year. We need more immigrants that are going to pay more that they use, and less that are going to use more than they pay. A family with 3 children will cost $30k-$60k per year. And that doesn't even cover their health care. How many illegal immigrants pay anywhere NEAR $30-$60k in taxes??? This is simple economics and simple math. There is no way to make it work so that we can open up our borders. It would bankrupt us. Of course, then the immigration would stop because we would be no different than the countries these people are trying to escape.
And the average white guy I work with who put 7 kids through public school on his couple grand per year in tax dollars to the school district? How is that affecting us? One of his kids is living on public assistance as we speak and his whole family is a health insurance nightmare. He cost our group health policy close to $100K last year when he tried to kill himself and failed. Who do you think is paying for that? There is some reality for you.

How many families with 3 children are paying $30-60K a year in taxes? I'm not advocating we throw open our borders, maybe just accepting the fact that this countries problems cannot all be blamed on migrant workers! Most of those folks work very hard for very little pay and a chance at a better life. Let's fix our immigration problems and while we are at it develop a method where people pay for their own life choices and stupid mistakes.

Multiple kids in school - you pay per child. You make stupid or risky life choices (smoking, overeating, avoiding exercise, riding motorcycles)- you pay for those choices. Personal responsibility for everyone!
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:26 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
15,206 posts, read 11,955,347 times
Reputation: 10825
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
And the average white guy I work with who put 7 kids through public school on his couple grand per year in tax dollars to the school district? How is that affecting us? One of his kids is living on public assistance as we speak and his whole family is a health insurance nightmare. He cost our group health policy close to $100K last year when he tried to kill himself and failed. Who do you think is paying for that? There is some reality for you.

How many families with 3 children are paying $30-60K a year in taxes? I'm not advocating we throw open our borders, maybe just accepting the fact that this countries problems cannot all be blamed on migrant workers! Most of those folks work very hard for very little pay and a chance at a better life. Let's fix our immigration problems and while we are at it develop a method where people pay for their own life choices and stupid mistakes.

Multiple kids in school - you pay per child. You make stupid or risky life choices (smoking, overeating, avoiding exercise, riding motorcycles)- you pay for those choices. Personal responsibility for everyone!
But that is just my point. The amount of (legal) people we already have that are taking from the system has us in such a huge amount of debt, how is it possible to take on 10 million more?
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
43 posts, read 76,549 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
The same can be said of manufacturing. Many many companies are coming out and saying they were wrong about offshoring some of the manufacturing jobs to low wage countries. Intellectual property issues, skimming, state-based subsidies which heavily favor local businesses 99.9999% of the time, and low-skilled workers are all contributing to the 500,000 new manufacturing jobs that are available now. Manufacturers are also finding that when you export jobs, you export the learning of new technology and processes that go with it, so they're having to re-train hundreds of thousands who want work.

I think Jim McNerny, CEO of Boeing, said it best when he said that "we, lemminglike" exported jobs to places like China whilst attracted by low wages. Rising oil costs, rising wages in those previously-cheap countries, and aforementioned other issues are finally coming to a head. Why pay foreigners to do the work and then a year later turn around and have an exact copy domestically produced compete against you, while also having said competitor benefit from extremely slanted domestic rules?

No thank you! I can see why so many places are hiring now.

Anyway, my predictions for growth:

Skilled manufacturing (CNC machining, crane operators, people who fix the robots who do the assembly work, etc)
Engineering (specifically aerospace, mechanical, nano-tech, etc)
Man/machine interfaces (cybernetics and hardware/wetware interfaces)
software engineering (artificial intelligence and automated decision-making neural networks are the future)

Decline:

Low skilled work (like textiles, toys, basically anything that requires less than a high school diploma)
Business related majors, like MBA's, as they've become ubiquitous and increasingly supplanted by automation
University professorships - the education cost bubble has to pop eventually and low cost city colleges and foreign universities are becoming more attractive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfunkle524 View Post
Eskercurve is right on the money. When it comes to engineering and skilled manufacturing, I think we'll be seeing large increases in wages in the next decade or two. Both of these fields are dominated by the old and the young. There's few middle-aged workers because they all went and got accounting/MBA/Business degrees while companies were busy offshoring. Now companies have realized that the offshoring of technical work is terrible for their products (due to HUGE quality problems from "cheap" engineering/manufacturing) and they're starting to bring these jobs back. Young people are starting to catch on, but there's still a huge hole that will need to be filled once the boomers start retiring en masse. When the economy starts a full-blown recovery these highly skilled or highly educated technical jobs are going to skyrocket.
I was thinking about going to school for CNC Programming or CNC Machinest (are they same?). I keep hearing different point of views..

The CNC Machinist forum at indeed.com doesn't look too promising.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,965 posts, read 16,443,262 times
Reputation: 17842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valker View Post
The CNC Machinist forum at indeed.com doesn't look too promising.
You cannot go to school to become a CNC machinist/programmer. You can take the classes, but it won't make you a machinist. You must start as an operator. The pay is generally low, around $10-$13/hr to start right now, although many places will let you work tons of hours if you want. If the company likes you, and you take an interest in learning, they will continue to teach more and more until you can can move on to setting up the machines, and eventually programming them. Depending on the types of machines and the skill level required for the work, this process can move quickly, or slowly. Simple machines like Haas or Miyano's are relatively simple to set up, so someone could move to that type of position in a year if they are relatively intelligent and hard working. The pay isn't that great though from what Ive seen. I've seen programmers getting hired for as little as $14/hr.

Everything I've learned was basically on the job. There are still tons of places that do OTJ training for those a wee bit green, but the pay isn't that glamorous. The classes are useful in determining if this is the right career for you. Be aware, as the technology progresses, there will continue to be less need for the number of workers to produce the same amount of work. Where I'm at, 1 operator can watch over 4 machines without issue.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,090 times
Reputation: 10
There can be so many jobs available for everyone. But the way people will spend their earnings can mostly determine the financial status of everyone. Sure, there's this great sale of the products you like to have. Do you go for that in a rush or do you curb the growing urge to make an impulsive purchase? If you chose the latter, congratulations! This means you have the discipline to curb your spending habits. I'm not saying you totally deprive yourself. I'm just saying that you must learn when and what to spend your money on. I learned this the hard way.Everybody has had to handle collection agencies, and a ton of the time, it is worth just waiting the seven years for the bills to drop off your credit. However, it could be an enormous hassle to deal with collectors coming to your door and regularly harassing you to get your cash. If you use a no credit check cash advance, you can pay them off and keep away from any further contact. Get more information at: No Credit Check Payday Loan
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:26 AM
 
8,393 posts, read 11,765,515 times
Reputation: 8016
Quote:
Originally Posted by debtmonger View Post
Health care... Docs, nurses, dentists, physical rehab specialists and psychiatrists. Nursing home management should be another growth area.
I'm a nurse,and just today a coworker was telling me that a manager was telling nurses they make too much and that she wanted to drop our pay down by a few bucks.
I have seen my wages drop by 3 dollars from 2009 to now.
So no,it isn't nursing that's for sure. But,on the flip side Cna wages have increased from 9 an hr to about 10.50 an hr.
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