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Old 05-31-2012, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,976 posts, read 16,458,218 times
Reputation: 17854

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Still waiting to hear how you contributed to the society you are judging as being on the wrong track? Telling me you went to HS, does not answer the question of how you feel you are in a position judge others. Those kids I speak of, went beyond what was offered and created opportunities for themselves. They were accepted to the nations best universities and will be success stories. Your every word, reeks of jealousy and anger issues.

People get out of education what they put into it. Since you confirm you got nothing out of it, we know you put nothing into it.

You make the assumption that the reason kids drop out, in the inner city, is the school's fault. I believe it is the parents/communities fault. I went to HS and college and it was nothing special then either, unless you applied yourself! The educational system simply make an adequate scapegoat.

Loins? Fruit? Snowflakes? Even the derogatory sarcasm you choose to utilize is indicative of your anger issues.

My kid doesn't have to carry the world forward, he just needs to take advantage of the opportunities afforded him and take care of his own business.
And while those children go on to do great things, they will carry the burden of those who cannot. Those 30% not graduating HS will be their anchor to drag. Add to the mix some friendly socialist policies (while continuing to cut the education budget at every turn) and it's not hard to see why our youth as a whole simply won't be able to compete on the global level.

PolitiFact New Jersey | United States ranks 26th in school performance in the world, senator says

U.S. Teens Lag as China Soars on International Test - Bloomberg

There are plenty more to show the U.S. is average at best. Do I blame the parents? Sure I do. I still find it shameful the way the school budgets have been the first targets for attack when money is short. Children should be recognized as our single greatest resource for the future of our country's well being. I also believe the "everyone is a winner" model will not prove favorable in the long run.

And when I was in middle school and high school, you could apply yourself all you wanted. Sure, you could take a couple AP classes here and there. In most classes, your progress moved at a snail's pace while 4 different learning strategies are applied to encourage JR to finally understand the basics of adding and subtracting fractions. Those AP classes were nothing special either, don't get so worked up on that. Those AP classes should be the standard classes in my opinion. Maybe we should take notes on how they do things in China, cause they are kicking our butts. Teachers there are getting raises because of performance. Wish we had a system like that here. It's pretty sad when we have to look to a communist regime for answers to our broken system. I bet those kids over there graduate with the ability to do well in college, or actually begin something of a career, the way kids used to do it here.

For all I know, your school district may be exceptional. Don't fool yourself. It is not the norm. If and when the tax receipts can no longer support such a school, open your eyes and ears for another district getting flushed down the toilet of mediocrity. And what gives me the right to critique our floundering K-12 system you ask? I pay taxes, just the same as you and the rest of the millions in this country. It should be the civic duty of every American to ask where that money is going, and if it's being applied in the most effective and efficient manner possible. To that end, I feel it is poorly utilized at best.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:25 AM
 
4,464 posts, read 3,195,512 times
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Many school districts are exceptional. In the areas where people care and support them! Which basically proves my original contention that our schools are a reflection and product of our values. garbage in, garbage out applies here. the educators do the best they can with what they are provided in terms of community support, financial support and raw materials. When our district was faced with shortfalls, we voted "yes" to a referendum to increase funding. many place will not. They make their choices.

China is not kicking our butt, they are a desperately poor country that is presently enjoying a growth spurt. Few citizens have it as well off as our lowest class of citizens. If test scores were the final determination of success for either Europe or Asia, they would not be decades behind the US on all fronts. Remind me which of those countries went to the moon or can afford to project the kind of military might that the US does. Europe had to form the EU to even remain competitive and look where that got them. The leaders prepared by their vaunted educational system have led them to the brink of economic disaster.

Very few people actually contribute more than they take from society. It has always been that way. Always will be. Most people are just freaking out that these emerging markets are now threatening our ability to grab at the low hanging fruit and competing for limited resources. We will rise to the challenge and emerge even stronger. These kid's have been raised to believe that they will have to fight for every advantage and they are prepared to do so.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,627,816 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
That's what happens when you roll over and play dead. Not that it matters. In Economics there's an animal called "Opportunity Costs." Now, you could still be making your own TVs, but there would be a cost to do that, and that cost is the use of Capital, including labor, which would bar the creation of other more important industries, like Netflix and Colonic Irrigation and Massage Therapy.

If you had not interfered in the Global Economy, way back when, this would all have happened 40-50 years ago. And had it happened, you wouldn't have a computer. No way. It would cost way too much for you to afford.

So you cannot say you didn't benefit from those tax and trade policies, because you most certainly did.

The real question is are you willing to give up the benefits that you got from the tax and trade policies that you so despise?

I think not.t's what happens when you roll over and play dead. Not that it matters. In Economics there's an animal called "Opportunity Costs." Now, you could still be making your own TVs, but there would be a cost to do that, and that cost is the use of Capital, including labor, which would bar the creation of other more important industries, like Netflix and Colonic Irrigation and Massage Therapy.

If you had not interfered in the Global Economy, way back when, this would all have happened 40-50 years ago. And had it happened, you wouldn't have a computer. No way. It would cost way too much for you to afford.

So you cannot say you didn't benefit from those tax and trade policies, because you most certainly did.

The real question is are you willing to give up the benefits that you got from the tax and trade policies that you so despise?

I think not.
The so called benefit was cheaper consumer goods in trade for good jobs that were replaced with McJobs, and 20 million unemployed, and 15 trillion in debt.

Quote:
And if they had not been bailed out, you couldn't live with the consequences. Things would be far worse than you could imagine, and certainly much worse than they are now.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me what these irresponsible financial institutions did.
I could have lived just fine with the consequences, I don't need the banks, I can pay cash for what I need. The banks and the elite class on the other hand would have been wiped out and replaced by efficient banks that were run conservatively. If you do not know what the financial institutions did, you must be the only one in the world who does not.

Quote:
Globalization is a fact of life. Get over it already. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it as Reality. You cannot undo Globalization and there is no way in hell you can stop it, since BRIC is the driving force behind Globalization and BRIC....

....is merely doing what you -- the Great Christian Nation -- should have started doing 100 years ago.

You are under the misguided impression that US companies are off-shoring jobs to take advantage of the cheap labor -- that you created. If labor is cheap outside the US then that is entirely your fault for not doing you civic duty.

US companies are off-shoring jobs to stay alive -- they are competing the Global Market Place, not in the US.

Show us how a Romanian earning the equivalent of $2.11/hour is supposed to buy Proctor & Gamble products made by union workers getting paid $38/hour.

Well you can't, so don't bother and in any event, P&G already answered the question by building 3 facilities in Romania, to make products to sell in the Balkan Region and Eastern/Western Europe and also the US -- because Romanian workers out-produce US workers.

And if P&G doesn't do that, then Unilever will build facilities in the Balkans and it will be Unilever who is reaping profits, and not P&G and then when Unilever gets enough profits, Unilever will buy-out P&G in a leveraged buy-out or hostile take-over.

Is that what you want? Do you want all US companies to be foreign owned? Yes, that is exactly what you want, and you have said so repeatedly. This is the US that you want:
Globalization is a scheme dreamed up by the elite to screw everyone for their own benefit. It is causing poverty and unrest worldwide. This is not the first time globalization has been done. It always ends the same way. Unrest within the populations of countries causes nationalism which ends in war.
As far a US companies being foreign owned, it is a moot point. There is no such thing as a multinational corporation with loyalty of any kind to the US or the people who live here.
I am not sure if you really believe what you say, or if you are paid to say these things, but in any case you make a poor argument.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,976 posts, read 16,458,218 times
Reputation: 17854
As far as globalization is concerned, China's numbers are so manipulated that no one has a clue what's going on over there. Ghost cities are tallied up and counted as GDP Start paying attention to Brazil and Australia to get a better idea of how China is doing. Even when factories are making crap and no one is buying, the communist regime merely dumps it on the open market, thus crippling any foreign competition. It's such a rigged system. These complaints stem back to as early as the 90's, when steel makers in the U.S. accused China of dumping steel on the market at rates far below the cost of refining and production. What we may be seeing today... China got too good. They choked all the wealth out of the hands of the buyers, and now there are not enough left to keep the train rolling! That means, game over. Flush the toilet, start over. Maybe the U.S. can start manufacturing things again and putting people back to work when all is said and done, who knows.

At any rate, it seems as though we are stalling. This is going to worry many, especially the government and the fed. Expect to start hearing that dirty "S" word get dropped a time or two before it really gains steam. You know, cause trying the same thing and expecting different results is a smart idea or something...
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
1 posts, read 1,299 times
Reputation: 15
Key and Finance Minister Bill English emphasised that the changed fiscal position would not alter the government’s intention of returning the budget to surplus by 2014-15. English warned of tougher measures, saying the deteriorating figures reinforced the need to keep spending “disciplined.”
Writing in the New Zealand Herald on April 1, economist Bernard Hickey said the financial indicators revealed a “massive reversal” in a decade-long trend of improvement in the country’s public debt position.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:14 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,787,800 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Where are you getting your vast supply of misinformation from? I just spent 3 hours sitting through my son's HS senior year awards ceremony at his public school. Those kid's were cream of the crop and there were a whole lot of them. Over 50 kids in the graduating class maintained a 4.0 GPA for four years, while taking a heavy load of honors and AP classes! A huge number additionally performed hundreds or hours of community service and participated in a vast array of competitive events. Many did so while maintaining a job!

Compared to what was being taught and learned 30 years ago, these kid's completely outclass previous generations. My son will enter a big ten university with 5 AP classes under his belt and three years of honors courses. What the h@11 do you do that puts you in a position to make judgements on today's youth? How have you contributed to our "status" in the world?

You hear how our educational system tries to build self esteem and keep children engaged, rather than dropping out and joining some street gang, and interpret that to mean we have no standards or challenges? You've got some anecdotes and curmudgenly views and think that can be generalized to suit your political views?

Oh please save the bs. If 50 kids in his graduating class maintained a 4.0 something tells me those classes or that school isn't very challenging. When I was in high school it was very rare for kids to get straight A's. You actually had to put in the time and do the hardwork to earn a 4.0 GPA!!!! There were hardly 50 kids in my graduating class that got straight A's. WHat does that make them special? Hardly if all 50 of them are getting them. And guess what. Your son won't really stand out in college because everyone else and their brother is doing the same thing he is. LOL..Community service, straight A's, maintaining a job, etc.

The local community in which I live tons of high school seniors have taken AP classes and are getting straight A's.. The only thing that tells me is what's next? Adjusting everything up so now we have to have a 5.0 to be considered rare? What a joke! The American economy cannot support you and your "50 straight A students" because the same college elite a'hole baby boomers shipped all the blue collar and middle class jobs overseas and now everyone and their brother thinks going to "College" is the ticket to the middle class lifestyle. Meanwhile all American can produce anymore is crappy overpriced military junk (F-22) and Facebook nerds like Zuckerberg. While your straight A student is taking AP classes and doing community service it takes 6 months to repair 20 feet of road or 2 years to fix a bridge in this country. America is pathetic. And nowhere are we more pathetic in this country than when it comes to our educational system.

Your son as smart as he is probably has no clue who John Locke or Thomas Paine were or how corrupt the inner workings of our money supply and fiat bankinb is. Hell the kid probably doesn't know how to make a fire, set up a tent, use a hammer, or a slide rule but he sure can use his Ipad and Iphone I bet. Previous generations didn't need AP classes and a 4.0 to actually KNOW how to get sh@t done. Get over yourself and get over your son. He's really not that important nor that intelligent in the grand scheme of life!
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:19 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,787,800 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Still waiting to hear how you contributed to the society you are judging as being on the wrong track? Telling me you went to HS, does not answer the question of how you feel you are in a position judge others. Those kids I speak of, went beyond what was offered and created opportunities for themselves. They were accepted to the nations best universities and will be success stories. Your every word, reeks of jealousy and anger issues.

People get out of education what they put into it. Since you confirm you got nothing out of it, we know you put nothing into it.

You make the assumption that the reason kids drop out, in the inner city, is the school's fault. I believe it is the parents/communities fault. I went to HS and college and it was nothing special then either, unless you applied yourself! The educational system simply make an adequate scapegoat.

Loins? Fruit? Snowflakes? Even the derogatory sarcasm you choose to utilize is indicative of your anger issues.

My kid doesn't have to carry the world forward, he just needs to take advantage of the opportunities afforded him and take care of his own business.
Your kids opportunities were built by those generations who came before him who you were just downplaying as being "outclassed". You the typical clueless American parent. While your son is enjoying his AP classes and straight A's on his path to college there are plenty of Americans that are out there WORKING for a living keeping this country's head above water. College intellectuals and the whole "college" elitist attitude is killing this country. For most people like your son college is simply an extension of high school. It's not what it used to be.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:45 PM
 
124 posts, read 194,948 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Economics and Economies are inanimate objects. Emotion is neither required nor desired. Moreover, emotion alters neither the facts nor the outcome.

So crying in your coffee won't change a thing.

If you cannot objectively view Economics, or any other disciplines without injecting emotion, then perhaps you should refrain from engaging in discussions.

Coldly...

Mircea
Remember that this is an open forum and we are free to post whatever we want so long as it isn't against C-D rules.

If you can't respond to someone else's opinion without suggesting they refrain from engaging in the discussion, it seems that you are the one who is getting emotional.

Objectively...

Fire
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,976 posts, read 16,458,218 times
Reputation: 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by fire&ice View Post
Remember that this is an open forum and we are free to post whatever we want so long as it isn't against C-D rules.

If you can't respond to someone else's opinion without suggesting they refrain from engaging in the discussion, it seems that you are the one who is getting emotional.

Objectively...

Fire
Ironically, there are plenty of economic occurrences largely influenced by the emotions of the day. Case in point, stock market crashes.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:01 PM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,985 posts, read 6,083,630 times
Reputation: 3660
what if they erase all debt and set everyone to equilibrium. what would happen then?
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