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Here something I always wondered, If say tomorrow the United States refused to allow any imports for any country, can't we just produce everything we need to buy right here in the United States? The only resource I think we really need to Oil, but recent discoveries (or more efficient methods of oil extraction) make the united States a net exporter of oil again.
While it's certainly true in the short run there will be shortages of products produced overseas, in time companies would rush to fill the voids. I think that our economy is large enough, if true protectionism was enacted, we be fine without trading with the rest of the world.
Actually even with a complete embargo of all imported goods, we still be able to export. The United States is a net exporter of Food, many of the worlds countries would be forced to buy our food on the world market. Nothing destabilizes a country quicker then hungry citizens.
Here something I always wondered, If say tomorrow the United States refused to allow any imports for any country, can't we just produce everything we need to buy right here in the United States? The only resource I think we really need to Oil, but recent discoveries (or more efficient methods of oil extraction) make the united States a net exporter of oil again.
While it's certainly true in the short run there will be shortages of products produced overseas, in time companies would rush to fill the voids. I think that our economy is large enough, if true protectionism was enacted, we be fine without trading with the rest of the world.
Actually even with a complete embargo of all imported goods, we still be able to export. The United States is a net exporter of Food, many of the worlds countries would be forced to buy our food on the world market. Nothing destabilizes a country quicker then hungry citizens.
We're a net exporter of energy, largely due to natural gas which we liquefy and sent abroad. We have no infrastructure for transportation natural gas. It's very inefficient to transfer it by truck in gas form and inefficient to liquefy it. You need pipelines to deliver it. You need to adapt vehicles to run on natural gas, which is costly. In ten years we could do it, but not over night. Prices for many things would go up drastically. Electronics, for example, we don't really make here. Clothes would be far more expensive. You might be paying an extra $400 for an iPhone, $1000 for a computer. You can get made in America Levi's... cost is about $100 vs $50 but generally bough on sale for $30 abroad. But wait. That's made in the USA of imported fabric. Same with New Balance. Want real made in America, more like $250-300. Allen Edmond's, the storied American footwear company, same deal. Imported materials. So guesstimate maybe $500-600 for a pare of dress shoes for AE, maybe $150-200 for sneakers from New Balance.
I don't know that it'd be the end of the world, but it would be a drastic adjustment and a significant decline purchasing power. A lot of that stuff you don't really not all that much of. Most people buy new jeans when they get faded, don't patch them and so on. My two-year-old jeans (Mexican-made Levi 501s) are still holding up, plus I have a couple older pairs I usually just wear for yard work or whatever. I could afford $300 a pair instead of $50. Same with shoes... $200 instead of $50-60. I'd probably stretch them out a bit further and go around with rattier tennis shoes. The cumulative effect of everything though, especially for kids who tear up clothes and grow, would be pretty influential for families. Lots more hand-me-downs and thrifting, I'd suspect.
We're a net exporter of energy, largely due to natural gas which we liquefy and sent abroad.
US a net exporter of energy? So where do you get this from?
TG was claiming the US was/is a net exporter of Oil. Which of course is not true, and now you are saying the US is net exporter of "energy." Also not true, but where are you guys getting this from?
I follow you guys are not generally that far off on things -- so someone must be publishing mis-information? Just curious.
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We have no infrastructure for transportation natural gas. It's very inefficient to transfer it by truck in gas form and inefficient to liquefy it. You need pipelines to deliver it.
Which are pretty extensive in the US.
But you are correct that exporting LNG is a PITA.
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You need to adapt vehicles to run on natural gas, which is costly.
Actually cheaper than electric w/ batteries -- unfortunately.
As for shifting US to NG for transportation -- while still using Internal Combustion Engines -- will likely paint US in the same corner we already find ourselves, with dwindling supplies.
Electric (without batteries) looks like the only real long-term working option.
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In ten years we could do it, but not over night. Prices for many things would go up drastically. Electronics, for example, we don't really make here. Clothes would be far more expensive. You might be paying an extra $400 for an iPhone, $1000 for a computer. You can get made in America Levi's... cost is about $100 vs $50 but generally bough on sale for $30 abroad. But wait. That's made in the USA of imported fabric. Same with New Balance. Want real made in America, more like $250-300. Allen Edmond's, the storied American footwear company, same deal. Imported materials. So guesstimate maybe $500-600 for a pare of dress shoes for AE, maybe $150-200 for sneakers from New Balance.
I don't know that it'd be the end of the world, but it would be a drastic adjustment and a significant decline purchasing power. A lot of that stuff you don't really not all that much of. Most people buy new jeans when they get faded, don't patch them and so on. My two-year-old jeans (Mexican-made Levi 501s) are still holding up, plus I have a couple older pairs I usually just wear for yard work or whatever. I could afford $300 a pair instead of $50. Same with shoes... $200 instead of $50-60. I'd probably stretch them out a bit further and go around with rattier tennis shoes. The cumulative effect of everything though, especially for kids who tear up clothes and grow, would be pretty influential for families. Lots more hand-me-downs and thrifting, I'd suspect.
Clothes and Shoes are pretty minor compared to our big ticket item of imported Oil.
That is the case on both the Macro / National Level, and the individual level, per your examples. Look how much the typical US family spends on the items you are discussing -- some hundred$ -- compared to the spending on imported Oil -- some thousands$.
Cut back on the Cash Flow bleed of Imported Oil, and all the trinket items become pretty trivial.
US a net exporter of energy? So where do you get this from?
TG was claiming the US was/is a net exporter of Oil. Which of course is not true, and now you are saying the US is net exporter of "energy." Also not true, but where are you guys getting this from?
Electric without batteries? How would that work, embedding coils below the pavement? And how could the drivers be billed? I know some railroads are electrified, but there the railroad also owns the locomotives so the energy costs are imbedded in their ton-mile rates. Not saying it can't be done, but it would be rather complicated.
Ahh, well no, I guess there you do not go. Not very far, at least.
Let's see what it says?
Quote:
The U.S. exported more gasoline, diesel and other fuels than it imported in 2011 for the first time since 1949, the Energy Department said.
Shipments abroad of petroleum products exceeded imports by 439,000 barrels a day, the department said today in the Petroleum Supply Monthly report. In 2010, daily net imports averaged 269,000 barrels. U.S. refiners exported record amounts of gasoline, heating oil and diesel to meet higher global fuel demand while U.S. fuel consumption sank.
mkay, will not argue that, either way.
But let's maybe understand what folks are talking about, first?
At least as used in this context.
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Oil -- a long-chain hydrocarbon that comes in raw form generally from wells in the ground or undersea.
Oil Products -- After Oil is refined it produces -- or makes Oil Products -- of Gasoline, Diesel and other fuels.
Energy -- The heat value or other measure of the amount of energy embodied in a unit of an energy transfer -- for example -- a barrel of Oil = about 1700 kWh of Energy.
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So is the US a net exporter of Oil? No. Not even close. We import around 10 million barrels a day of the 19 million barrels we use.
We export little to no Oil. All that imported Oil more than cancels out the 439,000 barrels of Finished Products listed in your article by over 20 X. We are a massive Oil importer at a rate double the nearest country -- China.
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So is the US a net exporter of Energy? No. With all that Oil we are importing . . . any LNG, Electricity, Coal, or other fuels we may export are also cancelled out again, by a factor of over 20 X, as well. The US is a massive net importer of Energy.
So what is that article talking about?
Mostly just finished Oil Products.
Largely due to the Great Recession, and our own weakened economic condition we are not burning as much Gasoline and Diesel as we once were. Miles driven are down, and folks are being more careful with the money they have.
But since our refineries were producing at 2008 levels (the Peak) they now have surplus capacity. So some of the imported Oil -- the Raw Crude Oil -- is going through the refineries making Oil Products -- Gasoline and Diesel -- which we cannot afford to buy and gets exported back out to the World Market as finished products.
Read the whole story you linked. That is the "net export" being claimed. It is largely just a silly concept, as we barely ever imported Oil Products to start with -- as we have our own refineries.
So the presentation that these article contents mean the US is now a Net Exporter of either Oil or Energy is largely a farce.
The US is still deeply hooked on Massive Levels of Imported Oil, leading US further into debt and an economic death spiral -- until and unless we kick our Oil Addiction.
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