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Old 06-12-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Fort Payne Alabama
1,773 posts, read 1,945,195 times
Reputation: 3347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
So, you want to end a program I have paid into for 35 years because you disagree with it?
This is not "free money", this is our money taken out of each weekly paycheck. A insurance if you like against being un-employed.

Ending unemployment is equal to ending social security. Take money out of a working man or woman's paycheck then give them the bird when it is time to receive the benefits they have long paid into.
Oh the mis-informed!!!
No money comes out of your paycheck for unemployment, it is paid for by YOUR EMPLOYER! Based upon their experience, they are taxed by the state a certain percentage up to a certain amount of earnings. In addition another tax is made on YOUR EMPLOYER by the Federal government to cover unemployment compensation once it passes the amount authorized by your state.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,516 posts, read 21,969,821 times
Reputation: 8720
Quote:
Originally Posted by kremit View Post
What? I don't think so..
Back when there was a draft, employers did not want to hire anyone who had not resolved their military obligaton, mainly because the law required them to hold the persons job if they were drafted while employed. Of course the rich got deferments for college or to do missionary work in Paris, those with Political Connections could join the reserves or National Guard. But bottom line was you weren't getting a good job until you served your obligation to the United States in one form or another
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:09 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,562 posts, read 81,193,810 times
Reputation: 91164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Zero unemployment in a few months with a stable economy. Here's how:

The government borrows $15 billion from China, and pays $3,000 as a monthly wage to $5-million unemployed workers. On payday, they all go out and spend that $15 billion. Employers hire workers to produce the goods and services those recipients buy, and pay them wages. For each one that gets hired, the government doesn't have to borrow their paycheck next month from China, so that $15 billion keeps going down. After a few months, everyone is hired, there is full employment, the companies that made the goods and services gain the profits from that increased business, and pay tax on the profits, which is used to pay back the loan from China. If we don't attack any other countries during those few months, we can borrow the money from the Defense Department, instead of from China.

Here's Plan B:

The government builds factories that make things people want or need to buy, and hires 5-million workers. No unemployment. But that sounds like socialism, so there is a standing offer. Any private entity can buy any one of those factories, at any time, for exactly the amount of money the government spent so far in developing and operating the plant. Now, they are all privately owned operations. That's not socialist. Unless, of course, private capital refuses to buy them, then it's their fault that it not private enterprise, and they have no right to whine.

Those are just rough outlines in principle, subject to adjustments of details. The point is, the USA has the wealth to boldly stimulate employment in this way, while most other countries don't, so we can use that wealth to work for us in furthering this advantage. Why are we afraid to just do it? Fifteen billion a month is less than we spend in the Iraq war during the first couple of years.

Here are the reasons we don't. In case A, it goes against our principles to see somebody get paid who is not working. In case B, it goes against our principles to see a market share not going to private enterprise, even if both of them are just briefly and temporarily entertained. Those are not economic reasons, they are spiteful reasons based on philosophical comfort zones that have been embedded within us.
What would stop the owners of those factories from outsourcing the work, just like they did before? Hello? Reality check? The US had factories producing goods for internal consumption until relatively recently. There are tax incentives in place for corporations to outsource the work, that's part of the problem.

Also, you'd have to get the GOP in Congress on board with your plan, good luck with that.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
3,053 posts, read 6,773,694 times
Reputation: 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Why not ask the people that you may know that are on unemployment. Ask what they would do with an extra $3,000.
I'm not currently unemployed, but I can tell you what I'd be spending the money on. I'd make minimum payments on debt, minimum amount I could spend living expenses and save the rest. Until you have a stable employment, most people are not spending any more money then they absolutely have to. They have to be on the Government employment program for years before they consider spending anymore than they absolutely have to survive.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:32 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,952,595 times
Reputation: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
I'm not currently unemployed, but I can tell you what I'd be spending the money on. I'd make minimum payments on debt, minimum amount I could spend living expenses and save the rest. Until you have a stable employment, most people are not spending any more money then they absolutely have to. They have to be on the Government employment program for years before they consider spending anymore than they absolutely have to survive.
Quite frankly, it is hard for me to imagine a statement that is further from the truth about the spending and consuming habits of the American people. Your personal habits are simply not the standard metric of American behavior that the marketing industry relies on for product design and inventory guidance. A typical American with a nickel in his pocket will crawl over broken glass to a place to spend it on something completely trivial and frivolous. Next time you go by a yard sale, stop and look on the tables, and see if you can see anything there that was more than they absolutely had to have to survive. Next time you're at a thrift store, try to imagine what impulse drove people to squander so much money on those insane fashions and housewares.

I'm sorry to disillusion you, but what YOU would do with the money hardly defines what "most people" would do with it. Furthermore, even for those you have characterized, it is not "stable employment", but "stable income" that triggers people to spend spend spend, and what the OP proposes is stable income, which would persist as long as there continued to be sub-stable employment. That was the whole purpose of the exercise. Stable income, stable buying power, a theoretical end to the uncertainty of being left without any money to binge with.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:26 PM
 
7,919 posts, read 4,506,304 times
Reputation: 7386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Zero unemployment in a few months with a stable economy. Here's how:

The government borrows $15 billion from China, and pays $3,000 as a monthly wage to $5-million unemployed workers. On payday, they all go out and spend that $15 billion. Employers hire workers to produce the goods and services those recipients buy, and pay them wages. For each one that gets hired, the government doesn't have to borrow their paycheck next month from China, so that $15 billion keeps going down. After a few months, everyone is hired, there is full employment, the companies that made the goods and services gain the profits from that increased business, and pay tax on the profits, which is used to pay back the loan from China. If we don't attack any other countries during those few months, we can borrow the money from the Defense Department, instead of from China.

Here's Plan B:

The government builds factories that make things people want or need to buy, and hires 5-million workers. No unemployment. But that sounds like socialism, so there is a standing offer. Any private entity can buy any one of those factories, at any time, for exactly the amount of money the government spent so far in developing and operating the plant. Now, they are all privately owned operations. That's not socialist. Unless, of course, private capital refuses to buy them, then it's their fault that it not private enterprise, and they have no right to whine.

Those are just rough outlines in principle, subject to adjustments of details. The point is, the USA has the wealth to boldly stimulate employment in this way, while most other countries don't, so we can use that wealth to work for us in furthering this advantage. Why are we afraid to just do it? Fifteen billion a month is less than we spend in the Iraq war during the first couple of years.

Here are the reasons we don't. In case A, it goes against our principles to see somebody get paid who is not working. In case B, it goes against our principles to see a market share not going to private enterprise, even if both of them are just briefly and temporarily entertained. Those are not economic reasons, they are spiteful reasons based on philosophical comfort zones that have been embedded within us.
Neither of those would actually work.

And we don't end unemployment, because then something might actually change when millions of people don't have money for food.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:40 PM
 
12,538 posts, read 14,626,922 times
Reputation: 18718
Came late to this discussion:

1. Cancel all long term unemployment/welfare. OP noted 3K a month, not sure anyone collects 1/2 that amount at maximum benefits. You get 6 months UE, after that you are done. If you are going back to work you will get it done inside of 6 months, if you aren't then why prolong the suffering on that low wage. Welfare has become a way of life for generations of families, it isn't fixing the problem.
2. Infrastructure- Rebuild it now instead of giving billions to other countries. Greece, Israel, S. America, African Nations- ZERO support from the USA. Get money from somewhere else folks, sorry the gravy train has run out for you. If America went in the building boom it had after WW2 it would be quickly the place to be, live, retire for people of all nations.
3. Certainly not everyone can handle road construction/bridge replacement but they can certainly make a sandwich, pour some coffee, answer the phone.....all services needed during an infrastructure boom.
4. Be honest- COLLEGE ISN'T FOR EVERYONE! Plenty of kids with liberal arts degrees that are working at Starbucks or the mall. Stop lying to kids (and their parents) that they will be superstars if they go to XYZ University. College is good for some people and a waste of time for others and even a bigger waste of money for kids/parents.

I didn't vote for Barry O and certainly won't in 2012 but I do feel he missed a major part of rebuilding this country with the Cash for Clunkers program. Yes US money/ OUR money to help people get new cars (that burn less fuel).....Why not mandate they buy a car BUILT in the USA? Wouldn't that keep more dollars in the US Economy? Put more Americans back to work? Sell off US inventory? Keep a need for car parts in demand for the next decade?

I disagreed with the program but would have found more merit in the program if they outlined you had to buy a car built/assembled in the USA. VW in Tennessee, Honda in Ohio, fine......Cars built in Korea, Japan, Mexico, Germany.....not with US dollars, sorry you don't get the free money.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:43 PM
 
12,538 posts, read 14,626,922 times
Reputation: 18718
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Neither of those would actually work.

And we don't end unemployment, because then something might actually change when millions of people don't have money for food.

Food, lottery tickets, cigarettes, strip clubs..........those food stamp debit cards have been used on all of these things!
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:45 PM
 
12,538 posts, read 14,626,922 times
Reputation: 18718
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowanStern View Post
Quite frankly, it is hard for me to imagine a statement that is further from the truth about the spending and consuming habits of the American people. Your personal habits are simply not the standard metric of American behavior that the marketing industry relies on for product design and inventory guidance. A typical American with a nickel in his pocket will crawl over broken glass to a place to spend it on something completely trivial and frivolous. Next time you go by a yard sale, stop and look on the tables, and see if you can see anything there that was more than they absolutely had to have to survive. Next time you're at a thrift store, try to imagine what impulse drove people to squander so much money on those insane fashions and housewares.

I'm sorry to disillusion you, but what YOU would do with the money hardly defines what "most people" would do with it. Furthermore, even for those you have characterized, it is not "stable employment", but "stable income" that triggers people to spend spend spend, and what the OP proposes is stable income, which would persist as long as there continued to be sub-stable employment. That was the whole purpose of the exercise. Stable income, stable buying power, a theoretical end to the uncertainty of being left without any money to binge with.


100% right on! Tech is a saver, most Americans aren't
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:47 PM
 
12,538 posts, read 14,626,922 times
Reputation: 18718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What would stop the owners of those factories from outsourcing the work, just like they did before? Hello? Reality check? The US had factories producing goods for internal consumption until relatively recently. There are tax incentives in place for corporations to outsource the work, that's part of the problem.

Also, you'd have to get the GOP in Congress on board with your plan, good luck with that.

Infrastructure would be hard to build overseas....oh wait we are rebuilding Iraq!

WW2 type US infrastructure would be what I assume most mean when considering an infrastructure commitment.
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