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Old 07-08-2012, 07:45 AM
 
7,452 posts, read 8,683,044 times
Reputation: 4667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuy2.5 View Post
So the debt in Greece has nothing to do with it? China's over spending and housing market bubble have no nothing to do with it? How about Spains debt crisis?

I do not agree that it is solely our fault that the world economies are in a depression. The world is a global market and the US being a majority leader will affect other countries if it falters. The irresponsible practices used during our housing bubble have most certainly been used in other countries as well.
greece is only a problem due to its membership of the euro ( chain is only as strong as its weakest link ) , if poland had the same problem as greece , their would be no global rammifications despite the fact that poland,s economy is three times as large as that of greece

the global financial economy is interlinked , especially between the usa , the eu , the uk and china
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,387,913 times
Reputation: 36331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post

Same way horses were replaced. One automobile at time.

If you have to replace a heater or air conditioner -- again, just per your example -- but let's add water heaters, too -- Just replace it with a renewable energy sourced one. Any existing unit only lasts maybe 10 to 40 years, anyway, so in 40 years you could have a full swap out just by attrition.

Look, I agree that we have collectively painted ourselves in a corner. Not that it was all by accident -- some folks on the top made some banks from selling US out, but most of US are too dim or too shy to figure that out and say so.

But to paint yourself out of a corner is the same way you painted yourself in -- Just one step and one brush stroke at a time.
You're overlooking a rather elementary consideration:
A sustainable infrastructure will need to be in place overnight if there is a sudden economic event that negates the utility of the old model. Not just for you and me, but 300-millon (or 7 billion) other people all with the same demand at the same time, and no traditional structured economy in which to build it. You won't be able to just go on amazon.com and say ship me an alternative fuel generator by overnight express and oh, by the way, since there is no currency in circulation, do you still take PayPal.

If an equine pandemic had killed every draft animal in the world in 1900, how quickly would every person have been riding in a reliable automobile and having a sufficiency of goods and eating foods produced with the aid of internal combustion machines?

The OP is not about the leisurely 1900 model. It doesn't allow for a half a century to persuade the captains of industry to plan out the scenario you described and then put it into effect.

Even Step One of what you describe isn't going to happen until industry/finance discover that it is a get-rich-quick scheme that will yield instant low-risk profits to themselves, and there is no philosophy on earth that carries more inertia than that economic principle.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-08-2012 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
8 posts, read 9,891 times
Reputation: 18
Dollar is going up as most of the countries are temporarily trying to increase their dollar reserves for doing cross-border transactions fearing that EU crisis will result in a catastrophic fall of the Euro. This trend made dollar more demanding in the market and it's price increased.
But the actual scenario is that with over $14 trillion debt and a buzz about QE3, the U.S economy is itself not in a very healthy condition. If the Fed finally decides to launch QE3, dollar prices will start to fall and most countries will then prefer precious metals like gold or silver to make intl. transactions.

Plus, unemployment rates are going up despite various government initiatives to put it under control and inflation skyrocketing, the U.S economy can be hit by the current turmoils..
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Moscow, Russia
14 posts, read 13,551 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjansen1969 View Post
Dollar is going up as most of the countries are temporarily trying to increase their dollar reserves for doing cross-border transactions fearing that EU crisis will result in a catastrophic fall of the Euro. This trend made dollar more demanding in the market and it's price increased.
But the actual scenario is that with over $14 trillion debt and a buzz about QE3, the U.S economy is itself not in a very healthy condition. If the Fed finally decides to launch QE3, dollar prices will start to fall and most countries will then prefer precious metals like gold or silver to make intl. transactions.

Plus, unemployment rates are going up despite various government initiatives to put it under control and inflation skyrocketing, the U.S economy can be hit by the current turmoils..

Moreover, US dollar is going up because of instability on the middle east. Because of this instability supported by US goverment investors go from there and invest their money in more less safe economics. OK , lets see what are they :

EU is going down
LAtin america - may be but with a high risk because of corruption ( or is it CIA rumors?)
China also has problems according to some media releases .
Japan ?? other asia counties - it is a possible way but i think soon it will be also unstable (no democracy and so on there may be a lot of reasons)
What else ..Africa?? only for pharma companies.))
Noth africa is already unstable region.

So it is the main goal to show the right direction to investors - USA )) To use their money to serve 15 trillion of US debt.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:38 AM
 
2,401 posts, read 4,221,235 times
Reputation: 2188
Wait.....
Just wait for it....
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:41 PM
 
Location: In a state of denial
1,289 posts, read 2,781,697 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjansen1969 View Post
Dollar is going up as most of the countries are temporarily trying to increase their dollar reserves for doing cross-border transactions fearing that EU crisis will result in a catastrophic fall of the Euro. This trend made dollar more demanding in the market and it's price increased.
But the actual scenario is that with over $14 trillion debt and a buzz about QE3, the U.S economy is itself not in a very healthy condition. If the Fed finally decides to launch QE3, dollar prices will start to fall and most countries will then prefer precious metals like gold or silver to make intl. transactions.

Plus, unemployment rates are going up despite various government initiatives to put it under control and inflation skyrocketing, the U.S economy can be hit by the current turmoils..
Bernanke said yesterday there are no plans for QE 3 through 2014, but that the economic forecast remains dim.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
32,441 posts, read 52,770,109 times
Reputation: 22204
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
... the global financial economy is interlinked , especially between the usa , the eu , the uk and china
Whether viewed as one large ship, sinking. Or if they are viewed as a collection of vessels tied together drifting at sea, each of them are taking on water individually.

There is no 'too big to fail'.

The only 'benefit' of being tied together hoping that one strong economy can support a dozen failing economies; is that in the process that one strong economy will buy out and eventually own the other nations.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,734 posts, read 5,548,709 times
Reputation: 4087
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You're overlooking a rather elementary consideration:
A sustainable infrastructure will need to be in place overnight if there is a sudden economic event that negates the utility of the old model. Not just for you and me, but 300-millon (or 7 billion) other people all with the same demand at the same time, and no traditional structured economy in which to build it. You won't be able to just go on amazon.com and say ship me an alternative fuel generator by overnight express and oh, by the way, since there is no currency in circulation, do you still take PayPal.

If an equine pandemic had killed every draft animal in the world in 1900, how quickly would every person have been riding in a reliable automobile and having a sufficiency of goods and eating foods produced with the aid of internal combustion machines?

The OP is not about the leisurely 1900 model. It doesn't allow for a half a century to persuade the captains of industry to plan out the scenario you described and then put it into effect.

Even Step One of what you describe isn't going to happen until industry/finance discover that it is a get-rich-quick scheme that will yield instant low-risk profits to themselves, and there is no philosophy on earth that carries more inertia than that economic principle.
It's already in process. Commodity exchanges are being created for all resources. Water will be of greater value than oil in the future and has already established a way to trade. Big oil and other corporate interests are getting control of available resources. They have also bought into solar and wind. If the carbon tax gets implemented then they will make money off of that as well and the costs will be borne by the users.

Financial arbitrage is a huge business and a way to make money off of other people's capital and labor.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:21 AM
 
3,335 posts, read 2,700,646 times
Reputation: 921
Especially telling is number 20... Bernanke says we are growing moderately...

Yeh! and Syria is a mecca for peace.

20 Signs That All Point To The Exact Same Thing – Can You Guess What That Is?
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:12 AM
 
28,655 posts, read 31,257,167 times
Reputation: 29652
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowanStern View Post
No, Developed countries will be hit the worst. In the USA, nearly everyone is committed to long-distance commute, energy-gobbler homes, processed food requiring long storage and transport, electrical dependence, polluted water, etc. In the event of a major depression, a country like Mexico will be much less affected, because most people (outside major cities) are already living with minimal transport, little need to go far, public transport infrastructure in place, housing that requires neither heating nor AC, few electrical appliances, an abundance of food produced locally, and minimalist health care. A serious collapse of the economy would leave Mexicans almost unaffected, compared to the chaos that would prevail in America.

I think Mexico will become the country with the problem of millions of unwelcome aliens coming across the border for a better lifestyle, and you might be one of them.
You could very well be right. I would also add that there is much less emphasis on materialism and money in Mexico and other Latin American countries and a lot more emphasis on family and community cooperation. In many ways, people in Mexico & other Latin American countries are in a better position because they cooperate with each other instead of waiting around for the government or the broader economy to save them.
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