U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2012, 12:44 AM
 
4,761 posts, read 12,338,747 times
Reputation: 7902

Advertisements

Go to work for a carpet cleaning company, then see what percentage of your business is cleaning the carpet in rentals where someone has moved out.

Or the painters painting an apartment where someone has moved out.

Roofers, water heater repairman, and don't forget those plumbers!

Actually many years ago, the average cost to fix up an apartment after someone moved out was around $900.00. I don't know what it is these days? They fix things, clean or replace the carpet/flooring, paint.

Also for nice larger apartment complexes, they have gardeners and there is usually some contractor there every day fixing this or remodeling that.

Drive around and look at the parking lots of large apartment complexes. I'll bet you see a few workman's trucks at each!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2012, 03:01 AM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,370,196 times
Reputation: 1103
Ok, I get the picture here - there is a maintenance trade associated with housing.

but, in the private sector, this would only happen to any large degree in areas/properties in which the tenants had the means to pay.

If we had large areas of subsidised social housing, then could the government not be a job provider here - for those on lower incomes?

Who maintains the Project 8 style housing schemes anyway?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,736 posts, read 5,554,932 times
Reputation: 4109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
I believe that the SU went for virtually 100% socialised housing, so not the same thing.

Perhaps the 50% could be lowered to around 30% - how would you feel about that idea?
I suggest you do a little research on Chicago's Robert Taylor Homes housing projects and similar projects done throughout the country. They do not have a successful reputation for improving the quality of life for people of modest means or helping to rise them out of poverty.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,719 posts, read 27,176,537 times
Reputation: 9241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
What I want to do is compare the private market system of rent/mortgage with socialised housing.

do you think a mix of socialised housing (say 50% of the market) and private housing would be better/worse and why?

for instance, how does paying money to a private landlord help the economy more than by having it managed by a government agency?
You have neglected to consider how that housing was built and paid for. If it was government housing, it would have been paid for by taxes, or from borrowed money, repaid by taxes. That takes money away from citizens who earn wages (income taxes), own property (property taxes), or consume goods (sales taxes).

If the housing were built privately, the owner/builder either paid for it, or more likely borrowed money from a lender. No taxpayers were involved.

At minimum, I believe using taxes for this purpose is inefficient because of the process required to collect and use taxes. The result is the housing would cost more if built by the government.

Governments are also somewhat immune from market forces. Who sets the rent? Does the government set them low to be "affordable?" Is it so low that they government operates the housing at a loss? If operating at a loss, taxpayers will be forced to subsidize the housing.

I am 100% certain that government employees, under civil service employment, will operate the housing less efficiently than private sector employees.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 11:20 AM
 
4,761 posts, read 12,338,747 times
Reputation: 7902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
If we had large areas of subsidised social housing, then could the government not be a job provider here - for those on lower incomes?

Who maintains the Project 8 style housing schemes anyway?

Actually Section 8 housing is privately owned pretty much. And the owners of those properties are held to a higher standard than non-section 8 housing. The properties must be kept safe and in good condition. They are inspected regularly.

And again private contractors maintain these properties.

So far as these properties providing jobs to the tenants, the people who live there are broke... Many times because they are disabled and can't work. Or because they lack job skills. So you are not going to find able to work electricians, plumbers, and carpenters there!

Also those properties are required to be maintained by properly trained and licensed contractors. For example electrical work must be done by a licensed electrician. To allow just anyone to do that sort of work would not be safe.

Anyway not a whole heck of a lot of work the tenants can do. Sometimes a developmentally disabled person might be hired to vacuum the public areas each day - things like that are done.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
16,261 posts, read 18,214,649 times
Reputation: 14491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
Ok, I get the picture here - there is a maintenance trade associated with housing.

but, in the private sector, this would only happen to any large degree in areas/properties in which the tenants had the means to pay.

If we had large areas of subsidised social housing, then could the government not be a job provider here - for those on lower incomes?

Who maintains the Project 8 style housing schemes anyway?
Yes, that is how the economy operates. Ferrari employs a lot more people per car produced than Toyota. Most people do not have the means to buy a Ferrari, so it is never going to be a major employer like the mainstream automakers are. In the case of housing, the overwhelming majority of areas/properties are filled with tenants who have the ability to pay. And if you were not aware, most of the country is extremely overbuilt right now. While the government could create jobs by borrowing money to build even more housing where we already have too much, why would you want to?

Section 8 is maintained by the property owner, so whoever they hire to maintain the property.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,864 posts, read 12,738,694 times
Reputation: 5292
In desirable areas with "high" housing prices, a large portion of the cost of housing is in Economic Rent (not to be confused with the monthly rental payment.) OP, you might want to read the Wiki.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 04:12 PM
 
19,337 posts, read 16,942,875 times
Reputation: 7515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Seriously? You don't understand how buying and selling products and services can be the basis for an economic system?

God help us!
He is half correct. Since every classical economist spoke of ground rents as separate from land improvements, completely forgotten today, God help us indeed.

It certainly has not been forgotten by those who profit from it.

What Is Ground Rent in Real Estate? | Home Guides | SF Gate

Now go ahead and explain how they add value renting out rocks.


It also does not create jobs; it destroys them. That is why the resource rent of oil in the seventies destroyed the badly applied Keynesian theory on employment and inflation. Stagflation is caused by scarcity that cannot be supplied by more labor. The OPEC countries just made more money with no need to hire more workers. Concentrations of wealth tend to lower the propensities to consume and so the economy slows.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,306 posts, read 79,429,401 times
Reputation: 55458
careless foolish people waste their money in bars and casinos. but if they have to pay rent this forces them to divert the bar money to rent money which the landlord uses to buy more property and rent it out too.
this employes brick layers dry wall and tile layers to build more apts. its a great system, unfortunately all the trades people are now illegal mexicans so u r helping an economy but all the money is helping the mexican economy not ours. also all the bricks dry wall and tile is hech in mexico or en chino. sorry it was a good system. filling up a money bag is easy, its the holes in the bottom of the bag that is the problem.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Ohio
3,441 posts, read 5,511,260 times
Reputation: 2689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Seriously? You don't understand how buying and selling products and services can be the basis for an economic system?

God help us!
Do a post search for Kenneth and you will see the light.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:10 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top