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Old 08-18-2012, 10:56 PM
 
1,552 posts, read 3,167,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
equality of wages and all that.

The ugly girl must work as hard as the hot one, and the guy doing the washing up has to work harder than both put together.

yet the hottie gets the cream!

this is just blatant sexism and discrimination.
you don't get paid based on how hard you work you get paid based on your production

if you have 2 waiters- one is a complete idiot the other is very smart with an excellent memory the idiot has to work a lot harder to get his orders right than the smart one
the idiot will mess up more orders than the smart one despite working harder
that's the idiots problem, im not going to tip the better more efficient waiter less because he didnt have to work as hard.


if 2 resteraunts serve equal food with an equal price with equal service but one has a bunch of attractive women and the other has a bunch of trolls which one do you think will do a better business?

if a hot waitress gives me lousy service shes gonna get a crappy tip anyway- but id much rather be served food or drinks from a hot woman than a man or ugly woman any day of the week provided they do a similar job.the majority of bills in bars and resteraunts are paid for by men so on average of course attractive women will make more than men or ugly women.

another perfect example is poker dealers- women make way more than men because they are tipped primarily by men.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:28 AM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
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Actually his example is why communism does not work well.

Let’s we have a cook, waitress, manager, owner and total brought in was $100 and worked 8 hours.
If we split the tip among 4 people, it would only be $25 each and they each would only make a total of $83(58($7.25 an hour) +$25).
The waitress would only make $83 vs. $117 to $158 for that day.

The cook who made $9.00 would have made only $72 so in theory he might gain a tad, but even then that would depend. A cook making about $10.37 an hour or more would lose (and tips can vary wildly).

In addition overtime is paid at time and a half (hours over 40), he benefits much more from overtime than the waitress under current law and at 7.25 he would only make $10.80 for hours over 40 but at $9.00 he makes $13.50.

The cook is one person you can’t get rid of as easily as the waitress. A manager or owner could easily serve a dish, but get a meal cooked quickly not as easy and doing both at the same time forget about it. You also can’t effectively manage if you are tied to the stove!

The waitress would have only gotten $3.19 an hour extra outside of tips but the cook would make $13.50 for every hour over 40 a week. If he only made $9.00, one hour of overtime and he makes more than $83($85). If he put in 2 or more he brings in more than the $25 worth of tip. And mind you restaurants typically have about 1 hour at the start and maybe an hour at the end of the day where there are no customers present to tip because they are setting up or shutting down. And trust me an owner wants to keep a good cook.

By limiting him to 7.25 and tips you limit his upside more than his downside. If no tips came in he still makes $9.00. If overtime less. Can’t ask for and get a raise(equality of wages and all that) without bringing everyone else's salary up.

The manager might be bring in 30K (and even up to 48K) a year but he/she is salaried. She or he will make 30K wither they work 0 hours or 100. There is an expectation that they put in at least 8 a day and often put in more than that. They typically have better benefits than lower staff (plus often have more control over their hours typically) but also more responsibility. She or he might be making the equivalent of $15 or so an hour.

An owner hopefully should be bringing in more than $83 a night or else he is going to go bankrupt. He won’t have much capital to either invest in new equipment, more restaurants, more staff or anything else!
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:30 AM
 
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bxlefty23

yes, but the whole business must work as a team otherwise it falls apart.

Take away the ugly waitresses, plate cleaners, veg choppers etc and the place cannot function.

These staff allow the hot waitress to make the tips - so they should be shared equally amongst all the staff.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:35 AM
 
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chirack:

your long-winded wage calculation is unnecessary.

just pay everyone their own wage rates, and then split the tips evenly between the team.

forget about tying tips into wages, they will both be separate.

then every worker benefits.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:41 AM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
chirack:

your long-winded wage calculation is unnecessary.

just pay everyone their own wage rates, and then split the tips evenly between the team.

forget about tying tips into wages, they will both be separate.

then every worker benefits.
Still does not work well. You reduce the amount of tip so much that a small difference in wage easily overcomes it. Also how do you convert jobs that are salaired into wage ones? Salaired jobs don't get overtime under current law but are guarunteed a min. amount of money. And why should the owner get any tip if he didn't serve me? Also if you pay everyone their own rates you loose equality of pay!
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:44 AM
 
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forget about salary and wages, these do not really factor in.

everyone gets min wage, or above.

The wages are split at the end of the shift for all FT workers regardless.

Part-timers can get a % of the tip.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:48 AM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
bxlefty23

yes, but the whole business must work as a team otherwise it falls apart.

Take away the ugly waitresses, plate cleaners, veg choppers etc and the place cannot function.

These staff allow the hot waitress to make the tips - so they should be shared equally amongst all the staff.
True, but in our system tips are optional. Sure they are a big part of a waitress's pay but they are not a big part of anyone elses. The waitress to some extent chooses to live on her tip making potenial. The rest of the staff do not.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:51 AM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
forget about salary and wages, these do not really factor in.

everyone gets min wage, or above.

The wages are split at the end of the shift for all FT workers regardless.

Part-timers can get a % of the tip.
You are assuming that the resturant had the same amount of staff all day and that eveyone's shift started at the same time--not realistic. The part timers could just be staff used to boost manpower at high demand times.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:51 AM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,836,753 times
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RE: Post 57

yes, I can agree here - the waitress may have an advantage in looks here which allows her to earn more.

but that still doesn't cover for how the employer should be able to pay less.

why should the owner get away with this, and effectively rely on the customer to make his staff's wage up to the minimum?
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:55 AM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,836,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
You are assuming that the resturant had the same amount of staff all day and that eveyone's shift started at the same time--not realistic. The part timers could just be staff used to boost manpower at high demand times.
this could easily be dealt with:

add up all the takings in tips at the end of the week.

divide a share up based on the number of hours each staff member has worked.

Temporary PT workers may not necessarily be included in the arrangement (ie:it would depend on the 'grunt factor')
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