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Your comments keep not answering the question. Monopolies sell cheaper versions of the items all the time. That's price discrimination. That you keep talking about "cheap" means you have no formal understanding of it at all. I also explained to you "kids" don't set the value. The market reality is someone who went to MIT is not going to look at DeVry as having the same value. That is the market reality.
You didn't answer the question. Which OS are you using? Its free, secure and effective. Why are people paying for an OS in an efficient market?
I use the OS that my company pays for. If you're using that as an analogy then it's stupid. Education is a lot more competitive than that. How many choices of colleges do you have vs. choices of OS? Think harder.
The example that you gave pretty much explains why you can't comprehend. DeVry doesn't even offer any of the traditional engineering programs you find in MIT - civil, mechanical, chemical, electrical, nuclear, industrial. Excellent comparison, kid!
I use the OS that my company pays for. If you're using that as an analogy then it's stupid. Education is a lot more competitive than that. How many choices of colleges do you have vs. choices of OS? Think harder.
No, it destroys your efficient markets hypotheses. If you did take finance, why don't you tell me who it was that challenged "supply and demand".
And education is more competitive than what? Information technology?
Quote:
The example that you gave pretty much explains why you can't comprehend. DeVry doesn't even offer any of the traditional engineering programs you find in MIT - civil, mechanical, chemical, electrical, nuclear, industrial. Excellent comparison, kid!
What does that have to do with anything Obviously the example was for same face value.
No, it destroys your efficient markets hypotheses. If you did take finance, why don't you tell me who it was that challenged "supply and demand".
And education is more competitive than what? Information technology?
Education is more competitive than OS. >4,000 schools versus 5 commercializable OS's (Okay 6 to the Linux fans). There's no comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1
What does that have to do with anything Obviously the example was for same face value.
Kid, an MIT graduate really isn't going to look at a DeVry student "as having the same value" (your words) because they probably did not major in the same fields. It's a bad comparison, don't you undersatnd?
I think you proved my point. Many of these students do not deserve a loan due to their potential risk level and thus should not receive loans for college. That's how loans work and this should be no different. Add back the risk and add back the risk assessment.
Then we are in agreement, I'm sorry I thought you were arguing about how we can approve students for more loans. Take the easy money out of the equation, including removing the government, and make the lenders feel the risk too.
I use the OS that my company pays for. If you're using that as an analogy then it's stupid. Education is a lot more competitive than that. How many choices of colleges do you have vs. choices of OS? Think harder.
The example that you gave pretty much explains why you can't comprehend. DeVry doesn't even offer any of the traditional engineering programs you find in MIT - civil, mechanical, chemical, electrical, nuclear, industrial. Excellent comparison, kid!
Nor is the intellectual quality of their student body any where near comparable.
Tough decision but life's full of it. Affording is relative though. One may have to take an enormous amount of debt to study in Tufts but spend less (and borrow less at levels they can pay back more easily) if he went to Binghamton or Rutgers instead. Or take a 4-year engineering technology major as an alternative. Those are the variables that we all have to play around with, including the likelihood of washing out in junior year. If I was a high B+/A student intent on studying engineering and from a middle class home, I would choose state U instead of private (assuming no substantial financial aid) just in case I would end up washing out in 3rd year. That way I'd minimize my losses. It's a financial decision just as much as an academic one.
All very true. Very true. The problem is who is guiding the decision making process and how skilled and objective are they in that process. My youngest could have gone to the state university and actually made money. Had everything paid, computer and book allowance (more than enough) and kept up to $4,500 above that in private scholarship money. He passed on that for full tuition and it was a wise move. We wrestled with a lot. We were able to leverage scholarships to get more money at another school etc etc. Yes you can negotiate academic based financial assistance. It can be a complicated process and many families are not up to the task and thats why they get into the trouble this thread is about.
Education is more competitive than OS. >4,000 schools versus 5 commercializable OS's (Okay 6 to the Linux fans). There's no comparison.
Kid, an MIT graduate really isn't going to look at a DeVry student "as having the same value" (your words) because they probably did not major in the same fields. It's a bad comparison, don't you undersatnd?
In 1995, DeVry was suspended from Ontario's student loan program after a large number of its students misreported their income. DeVry was reinstated after paying fines of CAD$1.7 million and putting up a bond of CAD$2 million.[6]
In 1996, students of DeVry's Toronto campus filed a class-action suit claiming poor educational quality and job preparation; the suit was dismissed on technical grounds.[7][8][9]
In November 2000, Afshin Zarinebaf, Ali Mousavi and another graduate of one of DeVry University’s Chicago-area campuses filed a class-action lawsuit accusing DeVry of widespread deception, unlawful business practices and false advertising and alleging that students were not being prepared for high tech jobs.[10] The lawsuit contributed to a 20% slide in the company's stock.[11] The class was not certified and the case was resolved for less than $25,000 in June 2006.[12]
In 2001, DeVry obtained permission from the Alberta government to grant degrees, on recommendation by the Private Colleges Accreditation Board.[13] This decision was opposed by the Alberta New Democratic Party (sitting in opposition), the Canadian Federation of Students, and the Canadian Association of University Teachers (the concerns raised are similar to those about other private institutions).[14] The NDP claimed conflict of interest as one of the controversial executives of DeVry Inc. served as both the president of DeVry's Calgary campus and as a member of the Premier of Alberta's special advisory council on postsecondary education. Nonetheless, DeVry became the first school of its kind[clarification needed] to be able to grant degrees in Canada.[15]
In January 2002, Royal Gardner, a graduate of one of DeVry University’s Los Angeles-area campuses, filed a class-action complaint against DeVry Inc. and DeVry University, Inc. on behalf of students in the post-baccalaureate degree program in Information Technology. The suit alleged that the nature of the program was misrepresented by the advertising. The lawsuit was dismissed and refiled. During the first quarter of 2004, a new complaint was filed in the same court by Gavino Teanio with the same general allegations. This action was stayed pending the outcome of the Gardner lawsuit. The lawsuits were being settled in late 2006.[12]
In April 2007 the State of New York settled with three schools that were participating in questionable student loan practices. DeVry, Career Education Corporation, and Washington University in St. Louis were involved with the settlement. DeVry agreed to refund $88,122 back to students.[
Education is more competitive than OS. >4,000 schools versus 5 commercializable OS's (Okay 6 to the Linux fans). There's no comparison.
Master sophist,
You have confounded schools vs schools of thought. There are many schools that teach OS technology and I expect they are in the hundreds. That is besides the point that schools are supermarkets of fields. OS technologies are schools of thought akin to behaviorism vs cognitive psychology that have schools in lots of places. Are you now going to suggest that psychology is not competitive because there are fewer than 4000 schools of thought? And yet there are many schools. There are many more hot dog stands than there are hot dog schools of thought as in Chicago style vs NYC.
Quote:
Kid, an MIT graduate really isn't going to look at a DeVry student "as having the same value" (your words) because they probably did not major in the same fields. It's a bad comparison, don't you undersatnd?
OK, granted. I am not an expert on school degree programs. Not relevant to the point.
This is not a discussion on economics. You either deliberately or on purpose befuddle the argument, pretty much from the beginning.
All very true. Very true. The problem is who is guiding the decision making process and how skilled and objective are they in that process. My youngest could have gone to the state university and actually made money. Had everything paid, computer and book allowance (more than enough) and kept up to $4,500 above that in private scholarship money. He passed on that for full tuition and it was a wise move. We wrestled with a lot. We were able to leverage scholarships to get more money at another school etc etc. Yes you can negotiate academic based financial assistance. It can be a complicated process and many families are not up to the task and thats why they get into the trouble this thread is about.
Can you say that the next kid has the same room to negotiate, and so forth? Granted a kid has exhausted all options to negotiate and cannot come up with sufficient private college aid, what's the next step? That's when you start comparing prices.
As I posted earlier, a colleague got a 50% discount to study business in Notre Dame and that's one of the best packages outside of a full academic scholarship anyone from his HS recieved, and he's from Chaminade meaning he had the full college counseling resources behind him. Despite that he was still on the hook for around $100K in loans. Going back to something I said before. If you choose to go to Rutgers over Tufts for engineering, what do you lose academically? Or studying CPA accounting in CUNY versus studying busines in Boston College? Basically nothing (you may even get a better education studying for a CPA). Yet lots of middle class parents will force the issue to send kids to Tufts or BC despite insufficient discounts and that is how they get deep into debt. It's not typically the case of a kid who has to choose between 100% scholarship in state U vs. 100% discount in private.
Master sophist,
You have confounded schools vs schools of thought. There are many schools that teach OS technology and I expect they are in the hundreds. That is besides the point that schools are supermarkets of fields. OS technologies are schools of thought akin to behaviorism vs cognitive psychology that have schools in lots of places. Are you now going to suggest that psychology is not competitive because there are fewer than 4000 schools of thought? And yet there are many schools. There are many more hot dog stands than there are hot dog schools of thought as in Chicago style vs NYC.
What I am suggesting is that there are more than 4,000 colleges and universities you can choose from, and even more if you count the overseas schools. Then it becomes obvious that these institutions can compete on price, and you can find a lower price alternative to whatever it is you want to study. Simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1
OK, granted. I am not an expert on school degree programs. Not relevant to the point.
This is not a discussion on economics. You either deliberately or on purpose befuddle the argument, pretty much from the beginning.
You are saying it is not relevant because you gave a bad example and now realize your argument does not hold water. Do research first before posting useless analogies. That's what it's about.
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Obviously the example was for same face value.
