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Old 09-04-2012, 06:57 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,026 times
Reputation: 5194

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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kCQzXzv3ZyOQTg

If you look about a two thirds of the way down in this link, you will see a chart that shows food stamp use in the US taking a dramatic upswing about the same time as China's admittance into the WTO.

My question is whether it is coincidence, or is there a tangible correlation between Chinese imports and US poverty?
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,089 posts, read 82,964,986 times
Reputation: 43661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
My question is whether it is coincidence, or is there a tangible correlation between Chinese imports and US poverty?
The correlation is the ever expanding raw number of US population...
relative to the ever declining raw number of US jobs.

Too many people and too few jobs that need doing.
People still need to eat. Feeding them costs less than the revolution would. Maybe.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,026 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The correlation is the ever expanding raw number of US population...
relative to the ever declining raw number of US jobs.

Too many people and too few jobs that need doing.
People still need to eat. Feeding them costs less than the revolution would. Maybe.
Logic would dictate that a growing population would facilitate the need for more goods and services to support that growth, the problem occurs when you outsource the jobs to provide those goods and services.
It is not that there are fewer jobs that need doing; it is that we are exporting those jobs in order to create more profit for the corporations supplying those goods.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:59 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,089 posts, read 82,964,986 times
Reputation: 43661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Logic would dictate that a growing population...
in the face of a declining industrial base and efficiencies
implies a basic ignorance about the value that $50 of latex can have in our lives.

The exporting of scut work, no education needed, industrial jobs happened a generation ago.
Today's problem is that we have too many people... not that we aren't making our own socks.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:16 AM
 
20,716 posts, read 19,360,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The correlation is the ever expanding raw number of US population...
relative to the ever declining raw number of US jobs.

Too many people and too few jobs that need doing.
People still need to eat. Feeding them costs less than the revolution would. Maybe.

Complete Malthusian myth. Where do you think markets come from? They come from people who demand goods and services.

Environmental externalities is where I do see a problem, but it has nothing to do with employment.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,026 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
in the face of a declining industrial base and efficiencies
implies a basic ignorance about the value that $50 of latex can have in our lives.

The exporting of scut work, no education needed, industrial jobs happened a generation ago.
Today's problem is that we have too many people... not that we aren't making our own socks.
Not only are we not making our own socks, but we are not making our furniture, our appliances, our TV's, our computers, our tools, or most of our autos and parts. The list goes on and on and on.
But hey, if you support a system that screws the people of America in order to keep a few elite filthy rich, then I just hope you are willing to accept the consequences. Like when some desperate person bashes in your skull for your wristwatch.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,089 posts, read 82,964,986 times
Reputation: 43661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Not only are we not making our own socks...
Who is making them? Do you propose to put them out of work?
Can you see what the next step is after that?

Quote:
Like when some desperate person bashes in your skull for your wristwatch.
Like who? What the US calls a poor person?
Or do you really think they'll take those jobs making socks?

Look past your own nose sometime.
TRY to see the larger picture.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,818 posts, read 24,902,718 times
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No is no coincidence here. More people, and more jobs going elsewhere. Fewer Americans actually needed. They still gotta eat though. A lot of our population growth has also been driven by immigration, who are keeping labor rates nice and low for the basics...
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:50 PM
 
81 posts, read 115,381 times
Reputation: 100
Yes, there is a 100% correlation there. Over hundreds of years of economic history anytime a nation runs a prolonged trade deficit, that nation ends up bankrupt. We successfuly had a trade surplus coming out of WWII that helped the nation become the preeminent power in the world. Since Japan first employed the model of trade mercantilism to develop their economy in the 1980s, we've relied on debt to maintain our economic momentum until it crashed down on us in 2008. Now, we rely on massive federal decifits and quantative easing to keep us afloat.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,818 posts, read 24,902,718 times
Reputation: 28512
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitz99clem View Post
Yes, there is a 100% correlation there. Over hundreds of years of economic history anytime a nation runs a prolonged trade deficit, that nation ends up bankrupt. We successfuly had a trade surplus coming out of WWII that helped the nation become the preeminent power in the world. Since Japan first employed the model of trade mercantilism to develop their economy in the 1980s, we've relied on debt to maintain our economic momentum until it crashed down on us in 2008. Now, we rely on massive federal decifits and quantative easing to keep us afloat.
The only thing we have going for us is many nations, especially China, can't afford for us to go belly up. China depends on strong consumer demand in Europe and North America to fuel it's growth. Hence, our slowdown has translated into a slowdown in China. Just wait... It's about to get interesting
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