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HooNose, if we consider importing and exporting as a single industry,...
Except they aren't a single industry.
Importing and exporting are sectors of the economy, not industries in and of themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn
.... the Import Certificate policy would not be of harm to any USA industry.
Yes, it would.
You just can't wrap your brain around the possibility that I can import $10 Billion, export $1 Billion and still increase the GDP by $50 Billion,....precisely because I imported more than I exported.
Your entire nonsense about Trade fails miserably, because you don't understand any of the math behind Trade and how Trade affects Domestic Output.
You and your ilk would cut imports from $10 Billion to $1 Billion to match exports, and then sit around wondering why GDP nose-dived $45 Billion and thousands of people are unemployed.
That's one reason it's called Comparative Trade Advantage.
You're not looking at the entire picture, but that's probably because you lack the education to do so.
If for every $1 you import you get $10 in Domestic Product, then you're ahead of the game.
Even if for every $1 you import you get $1.01 in return, you're still ahead.
Except they aren't a single industry.
Importing and exporting are sectors of the economy, not industries in and of themselves.
Yes, it would.
You just can't wrap your brain around the possibility that I can import $10 Billion, export $1 Billion and still increase the GDP by $50 Billion,....precisely because I imported more than I exported.
Your entire nonsense about Trade fails miserably, because you don't understand any of the math behind Trade and how Trade affects Domestic Output.
You and your ilk would cut imports from $10 Billion to $1 Billion to match exports, and then sit around wondering why GDP nose-dived $45 Billion and thousands of people are unemployed.
That's one reason it's called Comparative Trade Advantage.
You're not looking at the entire picture, but that's probably because you lack the education to do so.
If for every $1 you import you get $10 in Domestic Product, then you're ahead of the game.
Even if for every $1 you import you get $1.01 in return, you're still ahead.
Mircea, I’m supposing that you make no effort to seek out creditable and authoritative data and definitions before you post.
What your post contends are factual is actually incorrect. Your post indicates you misunderstand both mathematics and GDP. Your post implies a claim to an education. You did not profit from your education or you were mis-educated.
I doubt if you understand the concept of “comparative advantage”; but I haven’t a clue of what you actually meant to communicate when you wrote “That's one reason it's called Comparative Trade Advantage”.
Nations’ annual GDPs are increased if they experience an annual trade surplus and their GDPs are reduced if they experience and annual trade deficit. This is directly or indirectly “baked” in within all creditable methods for calculating nations’ annual GDPs.
Excerpted from Industry | Definition of industry by Merriam-Webster .
industry: The process of making products by using machinery and factories
: A group of businesses that provide a particular product or service
: The habit of working hard and steadily. …
… 2c: a distinct group of productive or profit-making enterprises <the banking industry> …
Don’t be discouraged; keep trying.
Respectfully, Supposn
Mircea, I’m supposing that you make no effort to seek out creditable and authoritative data and definitions before you post.
What your post contends are factual is actually incorrect. Your post indicates you misunderstand both mathematics and GDP. Your post implies a claim to an education. You did not profit from your education or you were mis-educated.
Actually, it closely mirrors what I've been reading in The Economist for the last 25 years.
The problem is that economic theory has no answer for the continued erosion of the middle class. Automation and global competition have seriously reduced the value of unskilled and semi-skilled labor in the United States. Robin Hood tax policy causes capital flight. Trade barriers and tariffs hurt everybody. Slashing taxes on the wealthy and reducing regulation does not cause "trickle down" benefits. The rich keep getting richer and everyone else gets poorer. I've concluded that there is no solution. The best we can do is slowly drift more towards a European-style Social Democracy. Just enough Robin Hood tax policy where we don't start seeing capital flight. Some kind of bare-bones single payer health care system. Address pre-K to 12 public education and day care so working class couples can work without having their children roaming the streets. Policy for affordable housing. Make sure transportation to work is affordable for the working class. Make sure the top-10% of the population that drives the economy is trained properly and isn't restrained too much by over-government.
Mircea, I’m supposing that you make no effort to seek out creditable and authoritative data and definitions before you post.
What your post contends are factual is actually incorrect. Your post indicates you misunderstand both mathematics and GDP. Your post implies a claim to an education. You did not profit from your education or you were mis-educated.
I doubt if you understand the concept of “comparative advantage”; but I haven’t a clue of what you actually meant to communicate when you wrote “That's one reason it's called Comparative Trade Advantage”.
Nations’ annual GDPs are increased if they experience an annual trade surplus and their GDPs are reduced if they experience and annual trade deficit. This is directly or indirectly “baked” in within all creditable methods for calculating nations’ annual GDPs.
Excerpted from Industry | Definition of industry by Merriam-Webster .
industry: The process of making products by using machinery and factories
: A group of businesses that provide a particular product or service
: The habit of working hard and steadily. …
… 2c: a distinct group of productive or profit-making enterprises <the banking industry> …
Don’t be discouraged; keep trying.
Respectfully, Supposn
For instance we get real stuff from China in exchange for conjured fiat.
I'm gonna slap the next person who perpetuates that kind of nonsense! If you just open your eyes for a second you can see how wrong that is.
Look at what has happened to China's economy while our middle class has been gutted. Now tell me who got the best end of this deal?
What we really exchanged was our productive capacity, infrastructure, and middle class prosperity. And we got a load of debt in the bargain! China's prosperity has risen at an absolutely insane rate. When you consider the size of their population, nothing remotely compares in the history of the world.
I'm gonna slap the next person who perpetuates that kind of nonsense! If you just open your eyes for a second you can see how wrong that is.
Look at what has happened to China's economy while our middle class has been gutted. Now tell me who got the best end of this deal?
What we really exchanged was our productive capacity, infrastructure, and middle class prosperity. And we got a load of debt in the bargain! China's prosperity has risen at an absolutely insane rate. When you consider the size of their population, nothing remotely compares in the history of the world.
The economy of China is not in sync with the USA. They are basically moving economically through what the USA did post-WW2 and on. And in a compressed and accelerated version as their central command knows modern money and are in a easier position to create it in mass quantities. The USA has evolved much further into personal consumption, so we have been natural buyers for all their stuff.
Now I don't dispute the fact that many jobs have been lost to globalization, many new technologies and corporate conglomeration and downsizing. Inevitable IMO. Our goal in the USA needs to be, and should have been, more in supporting the broad middle class these past few decades as wages and jobs have lagged.
Now I don't dispute the fact that many jobs have been lost to globalization, many new technologies and corporate conglomeration and downsizing. Inevitable IMO. Our goal in the USA needs to be, and should have been, more in supporting the broad middle class these past few decades as wages and jobs have lagged.
It isn't just "jobs lost to globalization" our entire economy was drained to support China's rapid development. In order for China to develop that fast, it was necessary for them to have a large trade surplus which needed to be absorbed by the largest developed economy in the world. We issue debt to pay for trade deficits, and it's real wealth. Plus our productive capacity, infrastructure, wages, and tax base go to hell.
First it was Japan. When they got to a high level the oligarchs moved the plan to China. The oligarchs on both sides get massively wealthy from these deals and only the bottom 99.9% in the US suffers, and who gives a **** about them?
It wasn't inevitable at all. Unless you believe that supposedly free and democratic peoples really aren't. That government policy is typically co-opted by handful of powerful people who all have the same interest.
It isn't just "jobs lost to globalization" our entire economy was drained to support China's rapid development. In order for China to develop that fast, it was necessary for them to have a large trade surplus which needed to be absorbed by the largest developed economy in the world. We issue debt to pay for trade deficits, and it's real wealth. Plus our productive capacity, infrastructure, wages, and tax base go to hell.
First it was Japan. When they got to a high level the oligarchs moved the plan to China. The oligarchs on both sides get massively wealthy from these deals and only the bottom 99.9% in the US suffers, and who gives a **** about them?
It wasn't inevitable at all. Unless you believe that supposedly free and democratic peoples really aren't. That government policy is typically co-opted by handful of powerful people who all have the same interest.
IMO it was inevitable. China does not so rapidly evolve because they have a few $T USD. Although it helps. China grows because their central command understands the nature of the fiat. They grow with Yuan, not nearly so much from the USD they have on reserve. Just look at the levels of USD they have over time, basically stagnant.
IMO it was inevitable. China does not so rapidly evolve because they have a few $T USD. Although it helps. China grows because their central command understands the nature of the fiat.
China would not have been able to grow nearly that fast without a massive trade surplus. It simply isn't possible. Else they would have needed to expand consumption at the same rate as they expanded production, and that has historically always been a slow process.
But the "development of China" wasn't really the point anyway. The oligarchs make a lot more money via the rapid export surplus approach. Enter the very accommodating US policy to make that a reality. It's no accident that all of this happened in concert to acheive this result... namely a massive increase in wealth by the powerful few in both the US and China.
China would not have been able to grow nearly that fast without a massive trade surplus. It simply isn't possible. Else they would have needed to expand consumption at the same rate as they expanded production, and that has historically always been a slow process.
But the "development of China" wasn't really the point anyway. The oligarchs make a lot more money via the rapid export surplus approach. Enter the very accommodating US policy to make that a reality. It's no accident that all of this happened in concert to acheive this result... namely a massive increase in wealth by the powerful few in both the US and China.
China basically could have sold their stuff to anyone, but I suspect that they'd like USD the most as they are the most useful in the world. But remember all this ramp up is based in Yuan, not so much in USD. China needs to seriously ramp up their consumer spending, which is the next phase of their national economic adventure.
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If you just open your eyes for a second you can see how wrong that is. 
