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None. Any consequences that would arise would be 100% positive.
None? Your pretty sure of yourself. When employers have far more applicants for a minimum wage position, I'm sure they will tempted to lower the wage level. You want $7.25 an hour, Ha, this guy is willing to work for $6.95 a hour, guess he gets the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Starting salary for a physical therapist in Ohio is about $42,000. In Florida, it is $90,000 for six months with free rent in a condo or apartment (in a nice place like Longboat Key or Siesta Key), free utilities, free cable, free broadband and a free rental car, plus moving expenses are paid free (coming and going).
The topic is MINIMUM WAGE JOBS, not jobs that require education or certain skills, how is an educated position relevant here? Most minimum wage positions are unskilled \ low education (or low skilled) labor. You can't make a the "Laws of Economics in accordance with the Supply & Demand for a specific skill-set" argument, here, it's not relevant, unless you know physical therapists making minimum wage.
Minimum wage does nothing but increase the price of goods. It is an artificial wage and has no place in our system. The number would probably be higher if the market set the price and not some bureaucrat in Washington.
Many hard-working families try to survive on the minimum wage and suffer terribly. And you guys want to allow employers to lower it? Companies made record earnings last year and you are worried that they might not make enough excessive profits or what?
JimHCom, PVandE55, Mircea,
ALL wages and salary rates are more or less affected by the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate to the extent that it is enforced.
The affect’s inversely related to the differences between the jobs’ and the minimum rate’s purchasing power); (i.e. them that earn less proportionally benefit more and those that earn more proportionally benefit less), but ALL wage and salary earners benefit to some extent due to the federal minimum wage rate.
Mircea, you write of “economic laws” with a certainty that suggests you believe economics to be a science similar to the physical sciences. Cole Porter got it right when he wrote “It ain’t necessarily so”. There are physical sciences and there are social studies.
Have you ever lived for any length of time among 2 families, (7 people) sharing a 2 bedroom apartment?
It’s not as pleasant as living in a dormitory, or prison, or military barracks (which are all generally more preferable than homeless shelters.
I often lived in furnished rooms. For a single guy that ain’t all that bad.
My parents, grandparents and most of their brothers and sisters almost all experienced apartment sharing during the depression. It’s similar to taking a cross content bus trip because you can’t afford train or air fare. Few if any of those that had such experiences would recommend it to anyone they had some regard for.
Respectfully, Supposn
I am willing to guess that you do not actually do any hiring, because if you did you would understand how irrelevant your whole argument is. I do hire people and the truth is you cannot get anyone worth a damn for minimum wage. Any job which requires that you have anything whatsoever on the ball pays more than minimum wage including fast food jobs. The number of people making minimum wage is so minuscule in the overall scheme of things that it is not worth discussing. Your theory that raising minimum wage is somehow a panacea that fixes the countries ills is based on fantasy and a complete lack of understanding of the realities of the job market.
If you really want to fix the economy start slowly and steadily eliminating social programs that reward people for not working, that will actually do something.
In the real world, if you subsidize something you get more of it. In this country we subsidize a person not working to the point where we have an entire sub-culture who makes a lifestyle out of being unproductive.
I recently hired a man to do a part time job, at more than double the minimum wage that refused to accept a full time position because it would affect his eligibility for food stamps, section 8, and unemployment benefits. His reasoning was that he could live just as well working a few hours a week and have plenty of time off. The taxpayers pay for his housing, food, medical, and cut him a check on top of everything else so that he can live just fine working 10 hrs. @ week.
I am willing to guess that you do not actually do any hiring, because if you did you would understand how irrelevant your whole argument is. I do hire people and the truth is you cannot get anyone worth a damn for minimum wage. ...
... In the real world, if you subsidize something you get more of it. In this country we subsidize a person not working to the point where we have an entire sub-culture who makes a lifestyle out of being unproductive.
Jimhcom, you’re correct, I do not but some my children do hire people.
I certainly believe you cannot get anyone to do much for at or near minimum rates. It shouldn’t be otherwise. You expect to pay less and receive more?
If a community doesn’t have affordable mass transportation, that’s reflected in the availability of potential lower income employees. Similarly the costs of housing and dependent care are also factored into the cost of labor.
You as a voter may ignore these issues but they certainly affect you as an employer.
[Some communities are considering subsidy housing for some of their middle income employees. Garbage collectors, cops and firemen cannot afford to live within commuting distance of the available jobs].
That’s why employing enterprises may pretend otherwise but they are major promoters of illegal immigration. They need it, they subsidize it and as you wrote, and “If you subsidize something you get more of it”. In regard to this issue, what we got is more poverty and a decreasing proportion of our middle income earning population segment.
I’m not pleased with the concept of government confirming a potential employee’s right to work; employers seem to prefer less interference with their right to hire rather than national ID’s and increasing the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage.
The minimum wage rate at any time is of little importance unless its purchasing power continues to be retained. That’s why I’m a proponent of a federal minimum rate annually adjusted to stay abreast with the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar. Social Security retirement benefits are now regulated in such a manner. The rate itself is not a recurring legislative issue.
I certainly believe you cannot get anyone to do much for at or near minimum rates.
You continue to view this from the wrong end of the mule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimhcom
....you cannot get anyone worth a damn for minimum wage.
Any job which requires that you have anything whatsoever on the ball
(happily) pays more than minimum wage including fast food jobs.
Quote:
You expect to pay less and receive more?
Nope. But employers don't expect to pay more and receive less. Or even the same.
Whatever social ills or inequities that may exist for the people who aren't worth being paid
more than the current minimum wage is not the responsibility of employers to make up for.
But even if it were... the proposed $9 rate is still a joke w/r/t meeting needs.
In most cities around the US they would need $13-$15 in order to be self sufficient.
...The number of people making minimum wage is so minuscule in the overall scheme of things that it is not worth discussing. ...
Jimhcom, references to the portion or numbers of workers earning the federal minimum wage rate is inconsequential. What’s consequential is all of those whose earnings are AT OR NEAR the FMW rate.
I’m supposing the federal minimal rate significantly affects the many more than a quarter of our nation’s wage earners. If we eliminate part timers, (many of whom are not part-timers by choice), I’m supposing the FMW rate significantly affects no less than a fifth of all full time wage earners.
Anything that significantly affects more than 20% of our full time wage earners’ incomes is significantly consequential to our economy.
Excerpted from the first message of this thread:
All wage and salary rates are affected by the minimum rate. The extent of minimum’s effect upon a task’s wage rate is inversely related to the difference between the purchasing power of the minimum and the job’s rate; (i.e. the more you’re earning, the less you’re hurting). That’s the meaning of minimum’s inverse affect upon all jobs’ rates.
But even if it were... the proposed $9 rate is still a joke w/r/t meeting needs.
In most cities around the US they would need $13-$15 in order to be self sufficient.
Upping it that far would tend to start a wage price inflation cycle. The ending point would be around $30 an hr or so. in order to get the equivalent of what you are talking about now. From a broader perspective we need to take responsibility for our debts we have run up over the last 30 years. We need more income to pay those debts with.
Upping it that far would tend to start a wage price inflation cycle.
The ending point would be around $30 an hr or so.
Of course it would... but that is what actually fixing the problem will cost.
Or do you want to continue to avoid the social welfare intention?
Too many people unable to provide even for themselves have created too many more.
Now they (you) want someone else to pay for their choices. No thanks.
The lesson (for the 100th time) is that the wage problems is 3 fold:
1) poor qualification even for the low/no skill jobs and
2) the shortage of low/no skill jobs
3) the simple raw number of warm bodies available -over supply.
Employers are already paying more than minimum wage to new hires when warranted.
It just isn't warranted (or even meaningful) across the board.
Of course it would... but that is what actually fixing the problem will cost.
I have been arguing wage price inflation as the cheapest least invasive way out of the current economic mess that we have. As far as I've been able to tell it is the only thing that will actually come close to fixing the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
Or do you want to continue to avoid the social welfare intention?
I'm a big fan of everyone taking care of themselves. It is far cheaper to have people working for them selves than to have them on th public dole. (People that are working tend to have less kids I think that you will like that one)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
Too many people unable to provide even for themselves have created too many more.
Now they (you) want someone else to pay for their choices. No thanks.
What they want and how best address the problem are two very different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
The lesson (for the 100th time) is that the wage problems is 3 fold:
1) poor qualification even for the low/no skill jobs and
That is a fault of the education system with some evidence that the fault is intentional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
2) the shortage of low/no skill jobs
This is an artifact of an over concentration of wealth in the hands of a very few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
3) the simple raw number of warm bodies available -over supply.
We disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
Employers are already paying more than minimum wage to new hires when warranted.
It just isn't warranted (or even meaningful) across the board.
The secondary effects of upping the minimum wage will tend to address the problems you've outlined above over time. Even if it takes generation.
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