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Old 11-30-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,628,173 times
Reputation: 5180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
But we don't live in a free market we live in a manipulated market economy. Indentured servitude is what we have. Next will be open slavery. I don't like where things are headed.

We need to make service jobs pay like manufacturing jobs use to.
Wrong, we need to bring back manufacturing jobs.
Service jobs are a zero sum gain, you do a service for me, and I do a service for you, no wealth is produced.
Manufacturing produces wealth because it produces tangible assets where none existed before.
What we need to do is scrap so called free trade agreements that allow corporations to make huge profits by offshoring American jobs.
America had a strong economy when it produced and consumed its own products. It produced wealth for everyone, not just corporate CEO's and Wall St slimeballs.
America’s marketplace belongs to the American workers and American citizens, not the Chinese, not the Mexicans, not the Koreans, THE AMERICANS!
The American marketplace is capable of providing jobs and prosperity for all of Americas people if we just stop allowing criminal politicians, greedy narcissistic corporate CEO's, and their lobbyists from stealing what is rightfully ours!
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,569 posts, read 11,477,540 times
Reputation: 9356
Corporations who were born and built in America should be loyal to their nation of origin..to the people and the children of the people who built them. If a corporation enjoys having their primary office in America they had better do something for America.

If these companies find that their new labor base is in India or China..Pass a law that all of their executives and middle managers re-locate to where they are doing business...Let those with the 20 million dollar bonus packages go live with the slave labor that allowed such a gift..Let these jerks reside in China or India or what ever the new nation of plunder might be.

They should not be able to reside in comfort and safety in a nation that they fail to contribute too. Why should the heads of corporations who just used and dumped America get to live in America? You can not have your cake and eat it too....exile them if they are thankless and disloyal and disrespect America.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:05 AM
 
621 posts, read 595,246 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Wrong,
Respectfully I am correct that we need to make service jobs pay like manufacturing jobs use too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
we need to bring back manufacturing jobs.
This is also correct. But this takes time to do and we need to replace the lost income now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Service jobs are a zero sum gain, you do a service for me, and I do a service for you, no wealth is produced.
You are preaching to the quire here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Manufacturing produces wealth because it produces tangible assets where none existed before.
Thums up to this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
What we need to do is scrap so called free trade agreements that allow corporations to make huge profits by offshoring American jobs.
We need to do something that accomplishes this it doesn't matter what it is but the effect is what needs to be achieved. There are many ways to get the effect tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
America had a strong economy when it produced and consumed its own products. It produced wealth for everyone, not just corporate CEO's and Wall St slimeballs.
We've been sold out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
America’s marketplace belongs to the American workers and American citizens, not the Chinese, not the Mexicans, not the Koreans, THE AMERICANS!
It is about time we took ownership of our economy. It is ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The American marketplace is capable of providing jobs and prosperity for all of Americas people if we just stop allowing criminal politicians, greedy narcissistic corporate CEO's, and their lobbyists from stealing what is rightfully ours!
Stand up and be counted.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,569 posts, read 11,477,540 times
Reputation: 9356
Force upper management of these corporations to take less profit...and force them to do business domestically.... You don't need a parasitic company feeding of what is left of the bones of America...Sure they will take a loss..but they will still be super rich...You don't need a 30 million dollar bonus because you have some one in India working for 4 bucks a day....You can take a a 2 million dollar bonus and have AMERICANS and pay them 150 bucks a day....Greed used to be good but it has it's limits....no human being needs a 20 or 30 million dollar bonus...what are you going to do with that money? Buy a gold plated toilet?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: 3rd Rock fts
749 posts, read 1,005,056 times
Reputation: 304
All this talk about bring the jobs back? What's needed is to bring the WORK back, jobs will be created then. Even a bridge to nowhere would/could be worth the price; the problem is the FIRE economy takes too much for the bridge to be worth the cost IMHO.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:52 PM
 
8,399 posts, read 7,665,692 times
Reputation: 3017
You know what, 70% college graduates in China major in engineering!
You may argue their education is crappy etc. but at least one needs to pass calculus and physics to graduate, which assures you are not a dumbass or lazyass.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,628,173 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
Respectfully I am correct that we need to make service jobs pay like manufacturing jobs use too..
The cost of labor is set by the forces of supply and demand. You cannot pass laws dictating pay without bankrupting small companies. There is no one formula that works for everyone. Employers have to have the flexibility to adjust pay to their own productivity and profit margins. If you passed some kind of arbitrary law dictating that all service jobs must pay $20+ per hr. the economy would crash so fast it would make the great depression look like a party.

Quote:
This is also correct. But this takes time to do and we need to replace the lost income now.
There is no short cut to prosperity. The government is already printing at a rate that is risking serious inflationary consequences. If you simply raised wages without an increase in GDP the result would be even more dollars flooding a system that is already experiencing inflation.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:44 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,246 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSOs View Post
All this talk about bring the jobs back? What's needed is to bring the WORK back, jobs will be created then. Even a bridge to nowhere would/could be worth the price; the problem is the FIRE economy takes too much for the bridge to be worth the cost IMHO.
The cost of the FIRE economy is a function of the total debt in % GDP. The FIRE economy is a true parasite on the economy. We need to reduce the total debt.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,982 posts, read 16,458,218 times
Reputation: 17875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Wrong, we need to bring back manufacturing jobs.
Service jobs are a zero sum gain, you do a service for me, and I do a service for you, no wealth is produced.
Manufacturing produces wealth because it produces tangible assets where none existed before.
There's a monkey wrench in your equation however... We already have many manufacturing jobs here. They pay McDonald's wages and employ armies of illegal migrant laborers. These are your typical no skill jobs that used to pay a livable wage 3 decades ago. They are the bulk majority of actual manufacturing work however. The shop owner won't even nothing hiring an American for the job. They'd be stupid to do that kind of work for next to nothing.

You also have highly efficient means of manufacturing goods today. Great efforts have been made to reduce the need for labor. We can produce the same amount of items today with a fraction of the workforce. That's how a lot of those manufacturing jobs "disappeared". The work didn't go anywhere, it's just being done through an automated process.

True, there were very fast and efficient machines running 4 decades ago. CAM machines from the 40's are actually faster than most CNC screw machines today. The difference is, the CNC machine is capable of work requiring extreme precision.

At any rate, this all has been holding manufacturing wages rather flat over the years.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:40 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,246 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The cost of labor is set by the forces of supply and demand.
And various forms of outside manipulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
You cannot pass laws dictating pay without bankrupting small companies.
This is true in absolute. But if you dump a large amount of cash into the consumer economy you can offset the dead weight loss of a much higher minimum wage and keep most of the small businesses from going under. Not all but most. And also create an environment where they will grow and flourish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
There is no one formula that works for everyone. Employers have to have the flexibility to adjust pay to their own productivity and profit margins.
We already have a law that interferes with this it is the minimum wage law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
If you passed some kind of arbitrary law dictating that all service jobs must pay $20+ per hr. the economy would crash so fast it would make the great depression look like a party.
Not we already have a law that says you can't pay less than what is it $7.35 an hr and the economy isn't crashing. You can adjust it upwards with ill effect and you can address that ill by giving the employers the money to cover the higher pay for several months. And give the consumers the money to cover the higher costs for a bit and no crash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post


There is no short cut to prosperity.
True but we need to restructure our debts. http://www.bearishnews.com/wp-conten...l-debt-gdp.jpg inflating GDP without the substantial creation of new debts will cut the ratio of total debt to GDP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The government is already printing at a rate that is risking serious inflationary consequences. If you simply raised wages without an increase in GDP the result would be even more dollars flooding a system that is already experiencing inflation.

OK there is a reason That the Government is printing large amounts of money.


Unless we do something to address this reason the printing will continue. (And most likely get worse)


We need one of two things either a large reduction in government spending or a large increase in government revenue. Or Both.


Getting full employment will increase the revenue base and reduce the counter cyclical spending that the government is doing.


Changing the dollar value of that labor upwards will further increase the tax base.


Balanced budget fast.


A large amount of reduction in Government spending will tend to contract the economy farther than it already is.
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