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Old 12-01-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,628,173 times
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Why do you believe we need increases in government revenue?
The Federal Government in reality has not needed to tax citizens since going off the gold standard in 1972. The fact that we are 16 trillion dollars upside down at present is proof of that. Banks and government can and do create money out of thin air, so long as there is some kind of asset to offset it.
Federal spending can help the economy during times of recession, but only to the degree that it used as investment in things that pay future dividends.
In the 30's government spending was used to build infrastructure which paid dividends in later decades. Today the vast majority of government spending is either military or entitlements. Military spending can have some small dividends as far as practical domestic technology but entitlements have none.
In fact the moral hazards of entitlements with the exception of retirement programs far outweighs any benefit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:09 AM
 
621 posts, read 595,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Why do you believe we need increases in government revenue?
To postpone the coming run on USD and to reduce it's economic impact when it gets here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The Federal Government in reality has not needed to tax citizens since going off the gold standard in 1972.
Really? There is a rummer that you don't get hyper inflation when you print unlimited amounts of money unless you owe money in foreign currencies and stuff like that. Do you subscribe to that rummer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The fact that we are 16 trillion dollars upside down at present is proof of that.
And The fed owns 1/3 of that and the SSI owns another 1/3 so you only have to worry about 1/3 of that moving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Banks and government can and do create money out of thin air, so long as there is some kind of asset to offset it.
And that asset is the productivity of the US economy as far as USD goes. What is the long term trend of actual productivity where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Federal spending can help the economy during times of recession, but only to the degree that it used as investment in things that pay future dividends.
We aren't having a recession we are having something like an economic depression. We are in a liquidity trap. No amount of new debt will greatly increase the economic output of this country. We need debt reduction not more Federal government spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
In the 30's government spending was used to build infrastructure which paid dividends in later decades. Today the vast majority of government spending is either military or entitlements. Military spending can have some small dividends as far as practical domestic technology but entitlements have none.
It is hard to argue with someone that you agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
In fact the moral hazards of entitlements with the exception of retirement programs far outweighs any benefit.
How to get people off of entitlements. Set the minimum wage above the payout for entitlements. Then create a large demand for labor.


With a high enough demand for labor anyone can get a job. If they want to keep it tho they will have to work.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,628,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
To postpone the coming run on USD and to reduce it's economic impact when it gets here..
There is no coming run on the USD. There is two reasons for my saying this. First there is no alternative. Where is the world going to turn for a reserve currency? The Euro? The Euro is barely surviving now. The Yen? The Yuan? Precious meatals? None of the alternatives is viable or practical. Stop and think about what is involved in being a researve currency, only a super power can manage such a feat. That brings me to my second reason there will be no run. The US is the only military superpower, and the military enforces monitary policy. If you do not beleave it look at what happened to Sadam when he decided to try to undermine the use of the dollar as a reserve curency.
Quote:
Really? There is a rummer that you don't get hyper inflation when you print unlimited amounts of money unless you owe money in foreign currencies and stuff like that. Do you subscribe to that rummer?
Trade imbalance goes hand in hand with being a reserve currency. It is simply a accounting fact. The fact that the USD is not backed by any kind of restaint like a gold or silver standard means demands for payment of debts in todays world does not require producing anything tangible, it is simply a computer entry. The only restaint on monitary policy is inflation. The current world economic situation and unemployment are keeping inflation to a managable level. If inflation does begin to accelerate, then the Fed would be under pressure to tighten policy which in turn would increase the value of the USD at a cost to exports.
Quote:
And The fed owns 1/3 of that and the SSI owns another 1/3 so you only have to worry about 1/3 of that moving.
This is very true. Now stop and think about how Social Security is going to pay its obligations to the 70 million boomers retiring.
The Fed is simply going to take the special bonds social security is holding and print cash in what they like to call an asset swap. Is this going to be inflationary? Yes. Is it going to cause hyperinflation? No. Hyperinflation only happens when production in an economy is drastacly reduced. What event in the future is going to devistate the US economic production?
In order to understand where we are going you need to understand who is in charge and what their goal is.
The world powers do not want to bring the system crashing down. They want to slowly bleed all the weath from the working class while simultainiusly creating a system of volutairy slavery, based on debt.
In order to do this they must keep the masses confused and scared, constantly making what is known as scared money decisions.
Everything that is happening is happening by design. It is all being manipulated to achive a goal. until you understand that it is very difficult to understand where we are heading.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:02 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
There is no coming run on the USD. There is two reasons for my saying this. First there is no alternative.
China is making moves to get its currency adopted as the reserve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Where is the world going to turn for a reserve currency? The Euro? The Euro is barely surviving now. The Yen? The Yuan? Precious meatals? None of the alternatives is viable or practical. Stop and think about what is involved in being a researve currency, only a super power can manage such a feat. That brings me to my second reason there will be no run. The US is the only military superpower, and the military enforces monitary policy.
China. We can't buy our war material from the country we are fighting. That is a military impossibility. They are swallowing our production capacity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
If you do not beleave it look at what happened to Sadam when he decided to try to undermine the use of the dollar as a reserve curency.
Look at North Korea and Vietnam. China backed both of those against us at least in part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Trade imbalance goes hand in hand with being a reserve currency. It is simply a accounting fact.
That is what the text books say. But I haven't read those. I see somethings that if they were done it would tend to balance trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The fact that the USD is not backed by any kind of restaint like a gold or silver standard means demands for payment of debts in todays world does not require producing anything tangible, it is simply a computer entry. The only restaint on monitary policy is inflation. The current world economic situation and unemployment are keeping inflation to a managable level. If inflation does begin to accelerate, then the Fed would be under pressure to tighten policy which in turn would increase the value of the USD at a cost to exports.
Part of the value of a currency is perception. We are perceived as strong therefore our money is good. Are we strong? We have structural problems with the economy. The Fed I buying 2/3 of our budget shortfall each year. This is a weak thing to do not a strong one. The reason the Fed is buying our debt is that foreign countries have stopped buying it. That is a lack of confidence. They are accepting USD in exchange for work done. We are getting something for nothing. Well almost. What they have is an IOU for a dollar not a dollar. What happens when they say we want a real dollar instead of an IOU. We don't have the tax base to achieve this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
This is very true. Now stop and think about how Social Security is going to pay its obligations to the 70 million boomers retiring.
The Fed is simply going to take the special bonds social security is holding and print cash in what they like to call an asset swap. Is this going to be inflationary? Yes. Is it going to cause hyperinflation? No. Hyperinflation only happens when production in an economy is drastacly reduced. What event in the future is going to devistate the US economic production?
In order to understand where we are going you need to understand who is in charge and what their goal is.
The world powers do not want to bring the system crashing down. They want to slowly bleed all the weath from the working class while simultainiusly creating a system of volutairy slavery, based on debt.
In order to do this they must keep the masses confused and scared, constantly making what is known as scared money decisions.
Everything that is happening is happening by design. It is all being manipulated to achive a goal. until you understand that it is very difficult to understand where we are heading.
I think that you are very close to the point on where we are headed and why. Have you ever driven a car and lost control? They are working hard at not letting this happen but there is that bird the black swan. If they don't see it coming then they hit it and the world changes.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:13 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,272 times
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Here is some good reading from another thread.

quote=the_windwalker;27185407]Correction.... WE WERETHE WORLD'S LEADING ECONOMY.

China's economy is actually growing pretty fast. While we've been waving our flag and pronouncing that "WE'RE NUMBER ONE", China has not been sitting back on it's haunches. And, we've been playing right into their hands. Look at how many of the things we buy that are made in China, especially the high-tech items like I-pads. American State-of-the-Art Technology, imported from China. Indeed.

But, don't take my word for it. Read it for yourself. This was on MSNBC.

China overtaking US as global trader

And, as for the US Dollar, by printing money as we come up short, we devalue the dollar. For decades it has been used as the "World Reserve Currency". Countries around the world trade it for debts and hold it to back up their own currency. As we devalue the dollar, it becomes less and less attractive for that purpose. The more money we print, the more value they lose in the US Dollars they have held in reserve. Prior to the 1950s, the British Sterling was the standard. Then, it was our turn and we're working on losing that. When we are no longer the world standard, our costs will spike. Very likely, we'll be looking at another "great recession", just like the one England went through in the '50s when they were replaced. Possibly a depression.

So, if you just stay on the bleachers, waving the flag and chanting "WE'RE NUMBER ONE", you'll be chanting yourselves right into the poor house, while someone else sneaks by you. And, "business as usual" in Washington is one of the major reasons we're slipping so badly. But, we help them along every time we buy something that's not made in America. We've got a long way to go in order to get back to the top, and stay there. You need to open your eyes, get your butts off the bleachers, and get into the game.[/quote]
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,628,173 times
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The US economy is more than 12X the size of China's. On top of that the Chinese economy is not nearly as strong as people believe it is. Their rapid expansion has driven their debt both private and public to levels which will cause problems going forward.
There is another factor you are not considering. China is dependent on the US market. Without the US market, China's economy folds like a house of cards.
If China were really a threat to US banking homogeny, you would see a change in trade policy that would break China's back economically.
The people who run this world are the same families who have been running the world for a long, long time. They are not threatened by China or anyone else.
While you may see a crisis in the economy of the US at some point in the future, it will not be China that benefits from it, it will be the world bankers who seek to rule governments and to end self-determination of their populations.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:52 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The US economy is more than 12X the size of China's.
But their population is 3X ours/
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
On top of that the Chinese economy is not nearly as strong as people believe it is. Their rapid expansion has driven their debt both private and public to levels which will cause problems going forward.
Just like we had in the late 1920's leading to our crash of 1929. After that we had the world's biggest economy. Everyone is debt saturated. It is the end of an exponential debt curve. It pops. Nothing to do about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
There is another factor you are not considering. China is dependent on the US market. Without the US market, China's economy folds like a house of cards.
They don't believe in paying their workers any where near what we pay ours. But that ca change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
If China were really a threat to US banking homogeny, you would see a change in trade policy that would break China's back economically.
Or not. The trend I see is this. “They” have decided to invest in the growing middle class of China and India. They are cashing out the middle class of America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The people who run this world are the same families who have been running the world for a long, long time. They are not threatened by China or anyone else.
I agree with you there. But occasionally they do get setbacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
While you may see a crisis in the economy of the US at some point in the future, it will not be China that benefits from it, it will be the world bankers who seek to rule governments and to end self-determination of their populations.
Unless that bird hits the wind shield. Back Swans do happen.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,439,955 times
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OK, here's the simple way to create jobs in the USA. (Figures I use below are for simplistic illustrative purposes, and subject to adjustment)

Continue to tax capital gains at 15% (or maybe a lower amount). Add a Jobs Surtax for all capital gains, which is a function of the unemployment rate. If the unemployment rate is 12%, the capital gains tax will be 15+12, or 27%. If the unemployment rate goes down to 7%, then the tax is 15+7=22%.

Any taxpayer can reduce his capital gains tax liability by diverting his investments into activities that create jobs or using his capital assets to create jobs, but it would only have effect if all taxpayers in concert succeeded in changing the unemployment rate by using this tactic. In effect, it would punish companies that do not use their capital to create jobs, by depressing their share value.

The jobs surtax is used (in part) to pay wages to surplus labor for whom there are no immediate jobs. Also for retraining workers, stimulating labor-intensive expansion, etc.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,439,955 times
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Default How about "Job Surtax"?

Here's the simple way to create jobs in the USA. (Figures I use below are for simplistic illustrative purposes, and subject to adjustment)

Continue to tax capital gains at 15% (or maybe a lower amount). Add a Jobs Surtax for all capital gains, which is a fluid variable depending on the unemployment rate. If the unemployment rate is 12%, the capital gains tax will be 15+12, or 27%. If the unemployment rate goes down to 7%, then the tax is 15+7=22%.

Capital gains tax rates would then be reduced as investments are diverted into activities that create jobs or used directly to create jobs, but it would only have effect if all taxpayers in concert succeeded in changing the unemployment rate by using this tactic. In effect, it would punish companies that do not use their capital to create jobs, by depressing their share value.

The jobs surtax would be used (in part) to pay compensation to surplus labor for whom there are no immediate jobs. Also for retraining workers, stimulating labor-intensive expansion, etc.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:11 PM
 
621 posts, read 595,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Here's the simple way to create jobs in the USA. (Figures I use below are for simplistic illustrative purposes, and subject to adjustment)

Continue to tax capital gains at 15% (or maybe a lower amount). Add a Jobs Surtax for all capital gains, which is a fluid variable depending on the unemployment rate. If the unemployment rate is 12%, the capital gains tax will be 15+12, or 27%. If the unemployment rate goes down to 7%, then the tax is 15+7=22%.

Capital gains tax rates would then be reduced as investments are diverted into activities that create jobs or used directly to create jobs, but it would only have effect if all taxpayers in concert succeeded in changing the unemployment rate by using this tactic. In effect, it would punish companies that do not use their capital to create jobs, by depressing their share value.

The jobs surtax would be used (in part) to pay compensation to surplus labor for whom there are no immediate jobs. Also for retraining workers, stimulating labor-intensive expansion, etc.
Why not just have the capital gains tax rate set at 3X the unemployment rate? But the fly in the ointment is that the unemployment rates are fiction at this point in time. The pay out rate and the claimed unemployment rate diverge by about 50% from having a good historic correlation.
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