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1)all business don't have ceos making 15 mil
2)some ceos are worth way more than that, some are thieving scum
3)even for companies who have well paid ceos some wouldnt even be profitable if the minimum wage was 30 dollars, and thats not even factoring in the loss of sales and profits they will experience due to inflation if this actually happened
oh look more businesses close up shop and less jobs available
4) for all the bitching and moaning people want to about walmart killing small businesses making min wage 30 bucks an hour would put an end to almost every single small business in the country (well except for ones that pay way below min wage off the books.)
5)struggling your whole life doesnt necessarily make you a valuable employee.If these people can't get better jobs now, and lots of people cant get jobs at all they will have no shot when there are a lot less jobs to go around at quadruple the wage.
Look it would be nice if everyone could make tons of money and buying power would remain stable, but that's not reality and pretending it is helps nobody.Anyone who thinks wages and inflation have no effects on prices of good, employment and the standard of living for all of us is a fool.Giving everyone 30 dollars an hour as min wage would not exist in a vacuum.
When there arent enough jobs available insuring there are even less through mass closing of businesses helps nobody.You will have less available jobs, and even more unemployed people than you have now.And a lot of the newly unemployed with be workers who are far more qualified and valuable than those currently unemployed or making minumum wage making it even harder for those people to get jobs.Massive inflation hurts poor people more than anyone as well. the "people who struggled their whole lives" are the ones you are ****ing over hardest by doing things like this.
1. Why I said "some" and not "all".
2. Agreed.
3. No reasonable person thinks $30/hr should be minimum wage. If you're going to make up a number why not go with $50 or $75?
4. Again, $30?
5. My point was that if you are struggling to survive on minimum wage, you are not averse to working.
I don't know where I stand on raising the minimum wage because it is a complicated issue and I have not researched it thoroughly. But most of the arguments I see here are based on opinion and conjecture and emotion. Yours is no exception. I will say that the same arguments against raising minimum wage have been brandished in the past each time it has come up. And after the minimum was raised there were no "mass closings of businesses" or "massive inflation" or any indication of loss of jobs. Many companies today have so much cash on hand they are paying it out as special dividends. Hey, I am not complaining, I own stock in all of these:
Offshoring has taken it's toll on higher paying jobs.
What's left are jobs that can't be offshored, low paying service, retail, leisure jobs.
It seems now the push is to make these no skill, low paying jobs "careers" with benefits and much higher salaries.
Trade deficits are ALWAYS an immediate detriment to their nations' GDPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Offshoring has taken it's toll on higher paying jobs.
What's left are jobs that can't be offshored, low paying service, retail, leisure jobs.
It seems now the push is to make these no skill, low paying jobs "careers" with benefits and much higher salaries.
Happy Texan, Refer to:
The discussion of “Reduce the trade deficit; increase GDP & median wageâ€;
or Google: wikipedia import certificates trade deficit .
Offshoring has taken it's toll on higher paying jobs.
What's left are jobs that can't be offshored, low paying service, retail, leisure jobs.
It seems now the push is to make these no skill, low paying jobs "careers" with benefits and much higher salaries.
Even before off shoring these were careers for people. I would like you or someone else to give a definition of a career because it keeps getting thrown out what should or should not be one without any reasons why. How many times do I have to say there only X amount of higher paying jobs available not everyone can get a higher paying job. If everyone went to college, trade school or get skills some other way it still would not change there are not enough jobs in those fields for everyone.
Canadian citizens pay a little under $200 Billion to cover everyone while the US spends around $950 Billion to cover the elderly and poor. And then those who dont benefit from medicaid or medicare still have to pay for their insurance and foot the bill for that 950 billion. My husband had no complaints paying taxes since he knew what he paid before in America for health care. And to top it off, those without insurance like visitors from the States can pay to see a doctor for under 100 and ER visits were only 600.
Our manufacturing base isn't expanding because there is no demand for a $200 plate made by US workers. There's demand for a $2 plate made in China. By raising worker's pay rates does absolutely nothing to the demand, but forces businesses to charge more for their current products and services.
Germany doesn't have a problem with selling high quality stuff at a reasonable price we didn't use to as well.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Our unfunded obligations are not funded because we spend more than we take in.
Yes. So we need the jobs that we still have to pay what those good ones use to.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Where do you propose all this bail out money come from?
We print it.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Does it make any sense to raise the minimum wage to $30 an hour, but have a 50% tax hike to pay for it?
We don't need to raise taxes one bit. Just get the Fed to buy several more trillion in T-bills than they currently have and all is not well but headed that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
I don't know where you're checking, but you seem to be confused between MINIMUM wage and average wage. The federal minimum wage is only $7.25 an hour and only 14 states have higher minimum wages, and all other states are equal to or lower than the federal minimum wage.
Did I say the average hourly wage was $7.25 an hour? No I said it was something like $17 an hour. So if you up the minimum wage to $30 an hour you will push the minimum over the average hourly wage. Doing that gives a lot of people an increase in their income.
Upping the minimum wage only affects four sectors - the food and preparation and serving, fishing and farming, personal care and service occupations, and building and grounds cleaning and maintenance. Of which, only 20 million workers are in this sector, which totals to only 15% of the population. How much money will you have to print to make life comfortable for 311 million people in the US?
You need to cover several months of the higher wages for the employers and enough for the workers for them to get use to the much higher prices. Say one month. The work force is at 150 million or so, so a lot of money.
“However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees. Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) also exempt certain computer employees. To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $455 per week. Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations.”
The Federal minimum wage applies to hourly workers. With some exceptions. Read above. So if you are working for dollars per hr and the minimum wage goes up above your current pay rate you get a raise.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
If that is your argument, then what's stopping a person on welfare from making $25 an hour now?
Nothing in theory but in practice the lack of demand for labor is what is increasing the number of people getting paid to not work instead of working.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
You mean there's not enough incentive for a person on welfare or foodstamps to go out and get a job that pays more than what they're getting?
40% is on food stamps if the rummer that I read was correct. So upping the minimum wage will cut food stamps.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
So we have to raise hourly wages more to lure them out of hiding?
If you create large enough demand for labor and the minimum wage is above the pay out then they have nothing to loose by getting a job.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
It doesn't matter how much money you give to someone if they don't want to work, they don't want to work.
Hmm if you give someone a small amount of money each month then they tend to live on it. Give them the same amount of money as a lump some then they tend to get a job.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
I think there are terms created just for that - slacker, couch potato, lazy bum, what else? On the opposite end of the spectrum, what about all the people that struggle their entire life and can't seem to get ahead - you know the people they call immigrants who don't speak that much English, left their home country because of war or persecution, tries to feed a family of six with no credit or employment history? I guess there's just not enough incentive for them to find a good paying job right?
Lack of demand for labor is a big problem.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Your two statements contradict itself.
The current state corresponds to one of those statements and a possible future to the other.
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
How can you buy back national debt if you have junk bond level status?
You can't
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Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Are you going to pay China's debt back with monopoly money?
They bought ours with monopoly money so why not? If you get a lot of inflation then they get less value for their money. But all we have to now is to write them a check for it. The $bill in your pocket says Federal Reserve Note. It is nothing more than a non interest baring T-bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddiesgirl
Because that was your proposal - print more money and give it to people. And you're saying to keep government spending from growing, yet you propose to give everyone money - which IS government spending.
A gift is not spending. Spending is buying something. What I am proposing to buy is an increase in GDP. The Government doesn't give someone money for something and then give what they got to other people. The Government should give enough money to get full employment to everyone and then let them do what they want with it. This is on a one time only basis.
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Originally Posted by shaker281
1. Why I said "some" and not "all".
2. Agreed.
3. No reasonable person thinks $30/hr should be minimum wage. If you're going to make up a number why not go with $50 or $75?
4. Again, $30?
That is sized to push the median house price above the the peek of the last bubble. It is not a made up number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281
5. My point was that if you are struggling to survive on minimum wage, you are not averse to working.
I don't know where I stand on raising the minimum wage because it is a complicated issue and I have not researched it thoroughly. But most of the arguments I see here are based on opinion and conjecture and emotion. Yours is no exception. I will say that the same arguments against raising minimum wage have been brandished in the past each time it has come up. And after the minimum was raised there were no "mass closings of businesses" or "massive inflation" or any indication of loss of jobs. Many companies today have so much cash on hand they are paying it out as special dividends. Hey, I am not complaining, I own stock in all of these:
you live in fantasy land
people can't find jobs now
so you want to double-quadruple what people make and think thats going to get more people hired lmao good one
lets just make minimum wage 5000 dollars an hour then we'll all be rich!
I am talking about restructuring our debt. If we do that then there should be more demand for workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
1)all business don't have ceos making 15 mil
2)some ceos are worth way more than that, some are thieving scum
3)even for companies who have well paid ceos some wouldnt even be profitable if the minimum wage was 30 dollars, and thats not even factoring in the loss of sales and profits they will experience due to inflation if this actually happened
oh look more businesses close up shop and less jobs available
4) for all the bitching and moaning people want to about walmart killing small businesses making min wage 30 bucks an hour would put an end to almost every single small business in the country (well except for ones that pay way below min wage off the books.)
5)struggling your whole life doesnt necessarily make you a valuable employee.If these people can't get better jobs now, and lots of people cant get jobs at all they will have no shot when there are a lot less jobs to go around at quadruple the wage.
4 all by itself you are correct. But if you cover the higher wages for a bit for the employers, and also cover the higher expenses for the workers for a bit then the small businesses shouldn't completely die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
Massive inflation hurts poor people more than anyone as well. the "people who struggled their whole lives" are the ones you are ****ing over hardest by doing things like this.
Have we ever had massive inflation drive by a minimum wage law before? Not that I am aware of. So you can't look to the past to tell how this will turn out. You have to model this one and take your best guess.
But we are set up for hyper stagflation. The nations debt is the world's reserve currency and it could start to move unexpectedly.
So as the title suggests. Why is the minimum wage in USA so low? And another thing half the populations works for like $10/Hr or less.
If the min wage were much higher (say, $25/hr), you would squash low-skill jobs out of existence, worsen our already bad trade deficit and outsourcing problems, and create rampant inflation. Supply and demand!
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Originally Posted by yowps3
I think it's one of the problem in USA which has hurt the economy to some extent ever since the year 1990 when nominal prices (forget real prices as they'll paint a worst picture) started to outpace wages which have stagnated.
To some extent, perhaps, but not as much as you suggest...
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Originally Posted by yowps3
How are people meant to pay so much student debt , car debt, insurance, etc etc on such low starting wages!!!?
Uh, they are not. Min wage is suitable for teenagers still living at home, a second job, or possibly single adults living a very low-cost lifestyle (no car, shared housing, no eating out, no travel, doing everything yourself including clothes repair, grooming, housecleaning, food preparation, etc.)
Min wage does not support anyone with an unemployed spouse, a car, a house to themselves, significant debt of any kind, high medical expenses, or children. The cost of ANY ONE of those (let alone several) is absolutely unaffordable to the min wage earner.
Those with low incomes and high expenses...turn to family and/or government for assistance paying the bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3
The reality is that the average wages aren't bad, it's just that the minimum wages are bad. And how so much people work for the minimum or very close to it.
Here in Australia the minimum wages are generous. You put more money in people's pocket, they spend that money and everyone is happy. I was working at a fast food and was making $20-$22/Hr
No one here will work for less than $20/Hr
I think the high wages has helped the Australian economy lots.
Unleaded gas is $1.38/L here in Sydney.
I have never ever been Down There, so I can't comment on that...
If the minimum wage is increased businesses will have to raise wages across the board.
My staff earn around $10/hr. If minimum wage was raised even just to $10 (forget the unreasonable requests of $20 or $30). My staff would go take an easier job at say McDonald's than working here. We would have to raise our staff pay to say $12 or $13.
I only may $15/hr to manage. I would seriously consider stepping down if I could make $13 as a staff therfore requiring my company to raise my wage to keep me here.
Raising the minimum wage would result in across the board pay raises and subsequent inflation making the whole scenario pointless as the differences in income and cost of living would remain unchanged.
$1.38/L x 3.785L/gallon x $1.05 exchange rate is $5.48USD/gallon which is 1.72 times more than the $3.19 I paid last night.
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Trade deficits are ALWAYS an immediate detriment to their nations' GDPs.
