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From what I have gathered so far it seems that the corporations and employers in USA are of extremly greedy nature.
And the government doesn't seem concerned about the working poor and the people at the bottom end of society which actually forms the bulk of the population.
The American government is there to just ensure that the top 1% are happy.
The other side of the coin is American's in general are equally as greedy. They will work overtime to sniff for the cheapest bargain. That's usually the guy that pays the least to his workers. As long as the workers keep lining up for $10/hr, that's all the position will pay. Try paying $15/hr for a position that the guy down the street is paying $10/hr for. Good luck staying in business for long...
Like I said, labor market rates slowly lost to inflation as businesses realized the tax payers would subsidies the living expenses of their workers. The honest guy who tried to buck the trend went outta business, or adapted by paying a competitive, but low wage.
For those that whine that things would be more expensive if lower skilled jobs paid more... Labor is just one commodity among many necessary to provide a good/service. If the worker's wages rise, he/she will have a better chance to actually afford the goods, since they are able to overcome the costs of those other commodities factored into the expense. Prices would rise a little, but the worker would be able to afford much more.
Thats about the size of it. They want to have a lot of poor peasants to work as slaves to make the rich, richer.
Don't forget the role of churches in it all.
Forty years ago we were warned about resource depletion issues...
which then got compounded by manufacturing automation...
and then the coup de grace... offshoring.
But rather than stabilizing the level of population we have actually increased it by 50%
This surplus of labor depreciates the market value of that labor.
The problem today is far less about not having enough jobs for everyone
than it is about having far too many people available for the jobs that actually need doing.
And yet people are graduating, not finding work in their chosen field, and having to pay off their student loans and raise a family on minimum wage. Which of course, they will never be able to live long enough to pay it all off. The America dream, or nightmare, depending on how you look at it.
There's income based repayment, so student loans aren't a problem now. Raising a family on minimum wage... I don't know, I'd never do it. Why have kids when you are unable to even provide for yourself without charity? I do agree, life is what one makes of it. Some people are hapless victims who refuse to take personal accountability for their own well-being or take their version of personal accountability that I disagree with (popping out welfare babies). If that's what they desire out of their lives and are happy with it... well, I find it disappointing but it's not my life.
There's income based repayment, so student loans aren't a problem now. Raising a family on minimum wage... I don't know, I'd never do it. Why have kids when you are unable to even provide for yourself without charity? I do agree, life is what one makes of it. Some people are hapless victims who refuse to take personal accountability for their own well-being or take their version of personal accountability that I disagree with (popping out welfare babies). If that's what they desire out of their lives and are happy with it... well, I find it disappointing but it's not my life.
With regards to income and starting families... I know plenty among my parent's generation who were making great money when they decided to have kids. But jobs disappear, industries hit hard times, demand for certain positions wax and wane... Who knows where any of us will be in 20 years, let alone a few. This economy is brutal for many folks who were doing great just a decade ago, but have to settle for whatever is available today. Many consider themselves lucky if they have any job at all. There's a reason people are lining up for Mcjobs and Walmart.
Given the environment and long term prospectus, rearing children is quite far down on my to do list, that's for sure.
And yet people are graduating, not finding work in their chosen field, and...
The minimum wage law is not meant for this class of person.
The MW laws are for the people this person should be hiring before too long.
This person not being able to find work at all or at a high enough level of compensation
(vs hours, benefits, etc) is a far deeper problem than anything the MW policies are meant to deal with.
The other side of the coin is American's in general are equally as greedy. They will work overtime to sniff for the cheapest bargain. That's usually the guy that pays the least to his workers. As long as the workers keep lining up for $10/hr, that's all the position will pay. Try paying $15/hr for a position that the guy down the street is paying $10/hr for. Good luck staying in business for long...
Like I said, labor market rates slowly lost to inflation as businesses realized the tax payers would subsidies the living expenses of their workers. The honest guy who tried to buck the trend went outta business, or adapted by paying a competitive, but low wage.
For those that whine that things would be more expensive if lower skilled jobs paid more... Labor is just one commodity among many necessary to provide a good/service. If the worker's wages rise, he/she will have a better chance to actually afford the goods, since they are able to overcome the costs of those other commodities factored into the expense. Prices would rise a little, but the worker would be able to afford much more.
You absolutely nailed it..
Americans are very obsessed with the quick buck. The American government is making the situations worst.
I mean look at corporate profits, they're at an all time high. Yet wages have literally gone backwards when compared to the Cost of Everything (COE).
You gonna tell me increasing the minimum wages and wages in general is gonna hurt business? Yeah ok it may hurt profits by 10% but the populations will become wealthier and will have more power to spend and everything will go round. (Strong economy)
It will always bring us back to the fact that business and American corporate are extremly greedy and the government is there to support the rich.
Increasing wages will fix more issues than one would think.
Seriously at this rate the average Chinese wealth will outpace the quickly falling wealth of the average American.
If you've ever been to cities like Shanghai you'll know what I mean.
Countries like Japan and Australia have much better and stronger middle class society than USA.
To be honest I personally think the U.S. is in much bigger trouble than what the average person actually thinks.
The media and government are trying hard to cover it all up.
Notice how the WAGES and INCOME topics are never brought up by the government
wtf is the difference if you can make 20 bucks an hour in sydney if the cost of living is super high
would you feel better if the cost of everything in the us doubled tomorrow as it everyones wages?
I've noticed part-time workers usually get very low wages, a few cents an hour over minimum, maybe, and no health benefits. But full-time workers get $20-$40 an hour, depending on type of business, position & skills. Plus they almost always get medical. Some of those part-time jobs that pay only a few cents over minimum are union jons, so they must pay dues as well.
We need some sort of correction. Some possibilities: $10 an hour minimum for all.
Employers can start at current minimum wage, but must give an increase every year, which they shouldn't mind if experienced is preferred over know-nothing trainees.
A 2 tier minimum wage, say one for under 18 (living with parents=low expenses) & a higher minimum wage for those on their own or wanting to move out.
I'd guess some of you might have some other ideas to add. Will be interesting to see how Black Friday sales works for Walmart if they have no employees. Best wishes.
thats great in fantasy land
you're ignoring the impact on prices if all the sudden all low level works are making 10 bucks an hour
frankly many workers are so useless that they are OVERPAID at the current min wage
DH & I earn a less in the U.S. than we would if we lived in Australia (although I had a much better job when I lived in Aus). However as I've said in other threads, our quality of life in the U.S. is a lot better than it would be in Australia due to the low cost of living.
As others have said, it's all relative.
I do have an issue with minimum wage to an extent in the U.S. as it's far below a 'living wage'. I do believe that some employers exploit the minimum wage in certain areas of the country where jobs are in high demand to keep their costs down. However I don't think doubling or tripling it is the solution. Minimum wage varies from state to state in most cases. I do believe that the Federal Minimum wage needs to be raised a touch (perhaps to $8 or $8.25) but raising it to $20 would be ludicrous. A lot of the Mom & Pop places would go out of business if they were forced to pay too much in wages.
Although to an extent it comes down to the notion of if you pay people more, people will be able to spend more which is good for any country, you have to keep in mind that the COL in most places across the U.S. is a LOT lower than Australia as others have said.
For instance, a house in a comparable neighborhood in Brisbane to the one DH & I bought recently in a suburb outside St. Louis would cost about 4 times as much as what we paid, and we are definitely not earning 4 times less than what I was earning in Australia or what I would be earning in Australia. (My husband earns about 72% of what I earned in Australia and I was earning about 60% of what I was earning in Australia when I was working. However our take home pay isn't awfully different due also to the fact that income taxes are a LOT lower in most of the U.S.).
If we do the Math, we're still better off here
I'd also like to add that the original intention of minimum wage was to avoid exploitation in unskilled jobs (especially in the service industry, fast food sector, grocery stores, etc) and there has always been a direct correlation between 'teenage' jobs or 'high school' or 'during college' jobs and minimum wage. In Australia, I believe minimum wage currently works on a tiered scale wherein persons under 18 earn a certain amount, 18-21 a certain amount, over 21 a certain amount etc which is reasonable and something the U.S. should consider implementing, but I'm sticking to my guns in saying that an Australian level of minimum wage at any age (for an unskilled person) is too high.
thats actually not reasonable at all
if i own a business and someone is useless i shouldnt have to pay them more than an 18 year old who is more qualified pay should be based on merit and not age
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
USA cost of living is at 30-60% cheaper, too:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
wtf a pair of levis is 96 dollars in canada
i can get them for 25 and i live in nyc
Last edited by Yac; 11-21-2012 at 06:49 AM..
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