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Old 12-06-2012, 11:13 AM
 
621 posts, read 655,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
how the **** does massive inflation and business closing down left and right with your idiotic 30 dollar an hour min wage not make the economy even worse
Taking this as two separate questions instead of one combined question.


How does massive inflation make the economy better not worse?


If you get massive inflation without a substantial increase in the dollar value of the total debt then you have less total debt as % GDP. This reduces the cost of the FIRE economy on the rest of the economy.
http://www.bearishnews.com/wp-conten...l-debt-gdp.jpg
Looking at this graph what was the economy like from say 1934 to say 1938? Does not very good ring a bell? Now with effective economic stimulus and a much higher average wage and median wage and not much more debt You can go through that part of the curve with something like full employment. That inflation would set the stage for long term sustained economic growth.


How does massive inflation not put every small business out of business?


Simple. Combine the higher wages with effective economic stimulus. Give the businesses the money to cover several months of the higher wages and give the consumers the money to cover the higher prices for a bit and you don't get massive contraction in the number of small businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
you can't tax your way out of this mess,
Agreed. You can't cut spending out of this mess either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
and you can't inflate your way out either
You can't loan out enough money to cause inflation to get us out of this mess. (If that is what you mean by saying, you can't inflate your way out of it, then I agree with you.) Wage price inflation drive by upping the minimum wage instead of loaning out money behaves differently than inflation driven by too much money being loaned out. Coupling it with effective economic stimulus gets you the creation of un-levereaged income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
if you really wanna make filthy rich people even richer and insure a lot more homeless unemployed and dying middle to lower class people this is a great idea
http://progressivestates.org/sync/im...raph47to06.gif
If you look at the peek of this graph it peeked in about 1948 and was much higher through the 1950's than now. The top tax rate was very high during this time as well. History contradicts your statement.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:45 AM
 
1,946 posts, read 1,285,192 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
GDP Per Capita doesn't really show a clear picture of the average wealth of a citizen in the certain country.

USA has a high Per Capita GDP.

But in countries such as Japan & Australia, the people have more disposable incomes
YOWPS3, what precisely do you mean? Are you deducting contractual obligations such as mortgages, home rent or car loans from disposable income? Those are incomes. You chose where and how you live or what car you do or do not drive.

I would agree that income taxes are not disposable incomes, but others may argue otherwise.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:18 AM
 
1,924 posts, read 2,364,876 times
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In every regime where a number for personal disposable income is produced, a definition of it will exist also. In the US, it is all personal income after taxes. It is the pool from which either spending or saving will result.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:06 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,572,060 times
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Yep minimum wage was pretty good in older times and has wages go up so do cost to support them. the question really is will the retail buyer buy your service at higher price. We see what is done in many areas where repair is now throw in many manufactured goods. Anyone that cam lower cost in a global economy is like to also take your business Tariffs just lower you buying power which means less real compensation.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:11 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 5,982,711 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
YOWPS3, what precisely do you mean? Are you deducting contractual obligations such as mortgages, home rent or car loans from disposable income? Those are incomes. You chose where and how you live or what car you do or do not drive.

I would agree that income taxes are not disposable incomes, but others may argue otherwise.

Respectfully, Supposn
Out of the industrial countries, America has the biggest wealth inequality. There is a long way from the tip top, and everyone else. Something such as GDP doesn't pay attention to details.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:18 PM
 
1,924 posts, read 2,364,876 times
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It doesn't pay attention to THAT detail. There are some details that a Gini coefficent doesn't pay attention to as well. There is no single measure of everything.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:33 PM
 
30,870 posts, read 36,793,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
If you want to raise wages for everyone, raise the minimum wage and the rest will follow. We use monetary and fiscal policies, some economists are proposing a new wage policy be implemented. The economy needs more demand.
This is incredibly simplistic and naive. I live in San Jose, California, which just raised its minimum wage from $8 to $10 per hour back in January. Most minimum wage type places were paying more than the minimum ~$9 per hour, but less than $10. I noticed prices at restaurants went up pretty soon after the wage hike went into effect. My bf is a hotel manager, and they raised their parking fees from $21 per night to $25 per night. Anyone who says increases in minimum wage don't create inflation is living in a dream world. I have seen it first hand. This kind of stuff means I have to economize more, eat out a little less, etc. It doesn't increase my demand. It actually reduces it.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:40 PM
 
30,870 posts, read 36,793,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Honorable politician? You are delusional. There is no such thing. Government is composed of the vilest psychopaths in society.
In the real world the purpose of government is to control the people, and do the bidding of the wealthy.
Additionally, despite the daily propaganda to the contrary, we are not a democracy, we are a republic. There are huge differences.
As a free citizen in a republic you have a responsibility to be an educated voter and to understand the issues. It is the wealthy and the government who want an ignorant populace who are easily deceived and controlled.
Every piece of so called regulatory legislation written in the past 20 years has been written not by congressmen and senators but by corporate lawyers who use regulation to monopolize industries and make it virtually impossible for competition to comply with those regulations.
Global Warming is a perfect example. It is a corporate plan to monopolize industry by creation of carbon credits and outlawing the origination of startup companies who would be unable to acquire "credits".
This bears repeating . (Edited for spelling corrections.)

This is the best explanation of the difference between all the different types of government than I've ever seen (including democracy and republics). A short 10 minute video that explains it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdS6fyUIklI
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:55 PM
 
30,870 posts, read 36,793,970 times
Reputation: 34444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptug101 View Post
We should do like Hong Kong and Germany either reduce or eliminate the federal minimum wage,but give the poor and working poor free or subsidized housing,healthcare, and food. If everyone has adequate food housing and healthcare
The minimum wage becomes a moot point.
The problem with that is there is a pretty large contingent of the population who will be content with their lot in life and who will do nothing but create problems if all of life's basics are provided, as people, especially the young, tend to create problems if they are not working or otherwise occupied. We already see this in poor urban areas already.

I do think, however, that we need to work to make the basics in life less expensive. As Jimhcom has pointed out, we have a lot of regulations which make doing business more expensive. This benefits big business because it keeps small competitors out. It also drives up prices and the cost of living. It seems so many posts on CD are about fighting about whether Crony Capitalism or Socialism is better. The truth is they are twin evils. The Socialists tend to not understand the difference between true capitalism and crony capitalism and think Socialism is the fix. But Socialism is just a different method of putting power in the hands of a few. It keeps the many complacent and happy.....for a while....but all too often it morphs into dictatorship/oligarchy (as we see in China), and as we also see happening in the U.S. today.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:56 PM
 
1,924 posts, read 2,364,876 times
Reputation: 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
This is incredibly simplistic and naive. I live in San Jose, California, which just raised its minimum wage from $8 to $10 per hour back in January. Most minimum wage type places were paying more than the minimum ~$9 per hour, but less than $10. I noticed prices at restaurants went up pretty soon after the wage hike went into effect. My bf is a hotel manager, and they raised their parking fees from $21 per night to $25 per night. Anyone who says increases in minimum wage don't create inflation is living in a dream world. I have seen it first hand. This kind of stuff means I have to economize more, eat out a little less, etc. It doesn't increase my demand. It actually reduces it.
You personally amount to an inconsequential blip. Study after study covering millions of blips have shown that increases in the minimum wage affect a small enough fraction of the total workforce and a small enough fraction of overall business costs that MW increases in line with what have been the historical norms for them do not result in any measureable increase in either inflation or unemployment.

I manage a resataurant. Low-wage workers are one of our required inputs, just like lettuce or electricty. If the cost of any of those goes up (and they all do from time to time), we don't buy less of them and we also try not to raise our menu prices. We might delay plans to purchase new tableware or glassware. We might discontinue a low-profit menu item. There is in fact much more flexibility in these things than what you are taking into account.

If anything, I would like to see the minimum-wage set and then indexed. That way, I would have a smoothly varying, knowable cost to budget going forward., As is, you get no icrease at all for a while and then wham, suddenly a big increase. Not a good way of doing business.
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