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Old 11-26-2012, 01:45 AM
 
Location: SoCal
1,528 posts, read 4,233,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkin View Post
"median wage" changes with the economy, minimum wage went up last 10 years and middle class incomes went down.

also Australia standard of living is ridiculous high, $2/bottle of Corona anyone?
What has happened in USA is that minimum wage has gone up slightly. But the cost and inflation has greatly, greatly outpaced the minimum wage growth.

But the much, much bigger problem is that the 'average' wage has gone down. People who used to make $15-$25 are now stuck at $10-$12/Hour jobs..

It's one of those problems which is much bigger than it seems.

Refer to my thread for more detail..

//www.city-data.com/forum/econo...-wage-usa.html
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:58 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Reducing the federal minimum wage also reduces the median wage.
Reducing the federal minimum wage also reduces the purchasing power of the median wage.

Reduction of the federal minimum wage, (i.e. the FMW) would induce creation of additional jobs. The additional jobs’ tasks did not justify the current FMW’s purchasing power. Some people effectively deemed unemployable at the current FMW rate could be employable at a reduced FMW rate’s purchasing power.

The numbers of additional jobs created due to the reduction of the FMW’s purchasing power is positively related to the extent of the FMW’s purchasing power reduction. When the U.S. Congress fails to keep the FMW in pace with the reduced purchasing power of inflated U.S. dollars, such increase of the lower paid jobs actually occur. The effect of FMW’s reduced purchasing power ripples throughout our labor markets.

[The FMW is less a contributor and more a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation. The FMW inversely and proportionally affects ALL USA wages and salaries; wage rates of lesser paying job proportionally benefit more, and higher paying job rates proportionally benefit less due to the FMW; but USA’s median wage an all other wages and salary schedules benefit due to the FMW].

FMW reduction would to some extent reduce prices but at the cost of reducing the actual net purchasing powers of wages and salaries. Eliminating the FMW replaces a legally specific minimum bench mark with an uncertain and lesser bench mark that would be the most extreme possible reduction of the minimum ‘s purchasing power during whatever national economic conditions exists at any given date.

Reduction of the FMW’s purchasing power will not decrease but rather increase needs for public assistance. It will drive the working poor deeper into poverty and they will be joined by many that are now our middle income earners dependent upon wages and salaries. This is not conducive to improving an economy.

I’m an advocate of annually cost of living adjusted FMW in the same manner as we now update Social Security retirement benefits.

Respectfully, Supposn
This is pure speculation based on faulty logic. Fact is that very few jobs pay minimum wage and are for the most part not full time. Minimum wage is a non-issue for the vast majority of workers and is in no way linked to median wages. Median wages are the true indicator of the supply demand ratio and what employers must pay for competent workers.
The real culprit of lower wages in the US is Federal trade policy which allows corporations to simultaneously exploit third world labor and our domestic market place.
By diverting attention away from the real cause of low wages and unemployment you are helping the wealthy exploit the workers and helping their agenda to Europeanize the US and lower the living standard.
The wealthy are only able to get away with what they are doing because people are too lazy to educate themselves as to how and why our economy went from what it was pre 1990's to what it is today.
Idiotic theories about raising the minimum wage creating a utopian socialistic situation simply play into the hands of those who want to use their financial power over government to control and make peasants of what were once free people.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The wealthy are only able to get away with what they are doing because people are too lazy to educate themselves as to how and why our economy went from what it was pre 1990's to what it is today.
The theory of democratic nationhood is that it is not necessary for every single member of society to be expert in all things, but instead to elect people who collectively possess a body of expertise and who will honorably discharge their duty to make decisions on behalf of the citizenry. In other words, the operative purpose of government is to defend the hapless poor against the rapacious rich, who would otherwise be unchallenged in their advantage.

The reason democracy is certain to fail is because these electees are certain to figure out that they can use their office in their own best interests, instead of that of the public.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,345,962 times
Reputation: 21891
Minumum wage should be based on what a person produces for the company. On a minumum an employee needs to produce 3X what they are paid in order to be considered an asset to the organization. For many that are paid the current minumum wage, those people are not producing and are costing the company money. For new workers the standard should be no pay untill they prove themselves in the market. Employers do not owe employees jobs you know. Employers are offering a service so that an employee can provide for themselves. For those individuals that show promise to an organization pay would be warranted. Individuals that produce additional capital for the company in the way of making the company money the employer may want to offer additional pay to keep those employees.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:16 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,018,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
This is pure speculation based on faulty logic. Fact is that very few jobs pay minimum wage and are for the most part not full time. Minimum wage is a non-issue for the vast majority of workers and is in no way linked to median wages.
Not reading the OP post but going off the thread title...

It's not faulty logic.

When the minimum wage goes up, wages across the board go up, raising the median wage. Logically, when the opposite happens the opposite response is quite possible.

If you want to raise wages for everyone, raise the minimum wage and the rest will follow. We use monetary and fiscal policies, some economists are proposing a new wage policy be implemented. The economy needs more demand.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,345,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Not reading the OP post but going off the thread title...

It's not faulty logic.

When the minimum wage goes up, wages across the board go up, raising the median wage. Logically, when the opposite happens the opposite response is quite possible.

If you want to raise wages for everyone, raise the minimum wage and the rest will follow. We use monetary and fiscal policies, some economists are proposing a new wage policy be implemented. The economy needs more demand.
A few years ago when California increased the minumum wage to $8 an hour I knew people that were making $8.50 an hour. I asked one of them if they were getting an increase. I was told that wouldn't be happening because they make more than minumum wage allready.

Also when an employer has to pay more to do business then they need to charge more to pay for the increased cost of doing business. How many people are willing to pay $10 for a burger and fries at McDonalds?

The truth is that people don't support themselves on minumum wage. It is a practice that should be eliminated. Our economy would be stronger when people are paid what they are worth and not some amount that is offered because someone thinks that is what everyone is worth starting out. The market needs to decide what should be offered in pay. What would happen is that people would take pride in what they do and work toward being the best at what they do. We would accomplish more and recome the world leader that we used to be at one time.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,528 posts, read 4,233,028 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
A few years ago when California increased the minumum wage to $8 an hour I knew people that were making $8.50 an hour. I asked one of them if they were getting an increase. I was told that wouldn't be happening because they make more than minumum wage allready.

Also when an employer has to pay more to do business then they need to charge more to pay for the increased cost of doing business. How many people are willing to pay $10 for a burger and fries at McDonalds?

The truth is that people don't support themselves on minumum wage. It is a practice that should be eliminated. Our economy would be stronger when people are paid what they are worth and not some amount that is offered because someone thinks that is what everyone is worth starting out. The market needs to decide what should be offered in pay. What would happen is that people would take pride in what they do and work toward being the best at what they do. We would accomplish more and recome the world leader that we used to be at one time.
Refer to my example earlier in the thread..
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:06 PM
 
1,967 posts, read 1,307,757 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
A few years ago when California increased the minumum wage to $8 an hour I knew people that were making $8.50 an hour. I asked one of them if they were getting an increase. I was told that wouldn't be happening because they make more than minumum wage allready.

Also when an employer has to pay more to do business then they need to charge more to pay for the increased cost of doing business. How many people are willing to pay $10 for a burger and fries at McDonalds?

The truth is that people don't support themselves on minumum wage. It is a practice that should be eliminated. Our economy would be stronger when people are paid what they are worth and not some amount that is offered because someone thinks that is what everyone is worth starting out. The market needs to decide what should be offered in pay. What would happen is that people would take pride in what they do and work toward being the best at what they do. We would accomplish more and recome the world leader that we used to be at one time.
Soon2BNSuprise, I suppose most of us have encountered the terms “soft” or “hard” sciences. Soft sciences are more subjective and less objective than hard sciences.

Even when there’s agreement of the facts, it is not unusual for intelligent men of good will disagreeing due to their interpretations of the very same facts. What some determine as a cause, others identify as affects.

What one may argue as a decline, others may perceive as due to the increase of the minimum wage, California better held up against other unfortunate economic factors.

My perception has been that due to each increase of the federal minim wage, our national economy and our society was better for it,

I suppose it is conceivable that a nation’s excessive increase of their legal minimum wage could be detrimental to their economy; but I’m not aware of such a national occurrence anywhere, within any nation at any time throughout human history.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,571 posts, read 2,000,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
hmm and it looks better for the companies as well because of higher demand for their goods.
b i n g o ! ! ! !

In order for the economy to be healthy, the income level with the largest number of people must have the money to spend. And, if you have more than 40% of the people collecting food stamps, guess which income level has the largest number of people. It suggests there are far more people at minimum wage than in the top 1%.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:23 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,689 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The theory of democratic nationhood is that it is not necessary for every single member of society to be expert in all things, but instead to elect people who collectively possess a body of expertise and who will honorably discharge their duty to make decisions on behalf of the citizenry. In other words, the operative purpose of government is to defend the hapless poor against the rapacious rich, who would otherwise be unchallenged in their advantage.

The reason democracy is certain to fail is because these electees are certain to figure out that they can use their office in their own best interests, instead of that of the public.
Honorable politician? You are delusional. There is no such thing. Government is composed of the vilest psychopaths in society.
In the real world the purpose of government is to control the people, and do the bidding of the wealthy.
Additionally, despite the daily propaganda to the contrary, we are not a democracy, we are a republic. There are huge differences.
As a free citizen in a republic you have a responsibility to be an educated voter and to understand the issues. It is the wealthy and the government who want an ignorant populous who are easily deceived and controlled.
Every piece of so called regulatory legislation written in the past 20 years has been written not by congressmen and senators but by corporate lawyers who use regulation to monopolize industries and make it virtually impossible for competition to comply with those regulations.
Global Warming is a perfect example. It is a corporate plan to monopolize industry by creation of carbon credits and outlawing the origination of startup companies who would be unable to acquire "credits".
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