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Old 12-06-2012, 08:56 AM
 
7,475 posts, read 4,355,917 times
Reputation: 7005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
Ignorance...that is all that video is.

I dont know any really intelligent hard working poor people, but I do know plenty of hard working intelligent rich people...funny how that works.

The people who believe this are the same people striking outside of a McDonalds demanding $16/hr and health care to flip hamburgers....

Pay is based on skill/intelligence/work. If you are unskilled/unintelligent/lazy - you should expect to be poor - unfortunately those unskilled/unintelligent/lazy folks have teamed up to all vote the same way - so we end up with what we have - an idiot for a President and a bunch of unskilled, dumb, lazy people with their hand out looking for someone elses money.
You must not get out much.

Guess you missed how much luck plays into it, as well as the ever increasing revolving door.



For the first time ever...

I hate to say it...

Good job Grandpa Pipes...

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Old 12-06-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: 77441
3,160 posts, read 3,992,537 times
Reputation: 2304
Seriously ?
Ive never been to Martha's vineyard,
but according to obaba and his leg humpers Im rich and need to be punished.
This is nothing but class envy.
people with your attitude can KMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
if people who love money are complaining they want another week in martha's vineyard, or another mansion with a 20 car garage, while people are starving in the street, or people are being killed because we cannot fund police departments, or even people getting ill from unscrupulous food producers because we cannot afford to pay inspectors then that is immoral.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:24 PM
 
5,369 posts, read 10,282,597 times
Reputation: 4423

Fiscal Cliff | The Simpsons | Animation on FOX - YouTube
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:33 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 88,059,605 times
Reputation: 18187
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Because the top 10% earns all the money!




The bottom 90% would probably owe more than they earned for the year if they paid "their fair share". I wish I could afford to pay more, but this guy got my raise, and I think he stole my gf
Strange it it now all the wealth sharing started in the mid 60's has only resulted in large income difference and less middle class. The bottom is always the bottom .
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:53 PM
 
1,832 posts, read 2,718,598 times
Reputation: 3754
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
You must not get out much.

Guess you missed how much luck plays into it, as well as the ever increasing revolving door.



For the first time ever...

I hate to say it...

Good job Grandpa Pipes...

Im out all the time, I am friends with lots of people who went to school, went to grad school, and then got professional licenses...doctors, lawyers, etc....I know only 1 person who had it all paid for....When my wife and I got married she had $123,000 in student debt...nothing was handed to her, she had no parachute, or silver spoon...she did not know anyone who would give her job, but she found one...a great one, because she worked harder and made the right decisions - NOT the easy ones. Its not luck that she got a great job - she made it happen. Luck is winning a lottery...its not lucky to work hard and get good grades through 12 years of school, 4 years of college, and 3 more years of grad school and then land a good job...that is not luck - it is the natural consequences of your actions.

Likewise its not bad luck that some girl age 16 has sex, gets pregnant, drops out of school and then can't get a good job that pays a decent wage. It is the natural consequence of poor decisions. For the US to function there must be a poor class who necessarily must work the jobs that pay very little...if there were not, then everything would be more expensive. Not every job can pay a living wage...those that don't should be used as gaps and props while a person improves themselves to get that better job. Unfortunately our government has intervened and told those people with no skills its not their fault - its the rich bosses fault - then instead of teaching him a skill to improve himself, they give him money and discourage him from improving his plight...that person then just goes about life thinking they are a victim and they never do a thing to get ahead again.

In life there are always 2 decisions - the good one and the bad one...then there are always 2 options, the easy way and the hard way. The bad decision and the easy way almost always mean that your choice will have an effect on your future.

In High School in stead of doing drugs, getting drunk every night, and having babies successful people, of all economic backgrounds study and prepare themselves for college...In college, instead of partying all the time and enrolling in worthless BA degrees,like History, Art, or Psychology, successful people study Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, Math, Pre-Med, etc...After college instead of taking the first middle class job that they are offered, successful people enrolled in grad school, choose a specialty, or select career paths that had growth opportunities.

The difference between the poor and the rich is not background, its smart choices.

You can tell me 100 sob stories, and when told truthfully, its usually pretty darn easy to determine where that person went wrong.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:27 PM
 
344 posts, read 389,365 times
Reputation: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Let's assume that Mr Obama gets his way, the Republicans cave and agree to let marginal tax rates rise on taxable income above $200,000/$250,000.

Rest assured that over the next year or two, both parties working quietly together will pass in stealth more special-interest deductions, exemptions, credits and other loopholes, buried in other legislation, headline or obscure, that keeps effective tax rates the same or even reduces them.

Unfortunately the distinction between marginal and effective tax rates, just like the distinction between income and wealth, is lost on most people and all of this is simply propaganda and political theater designed and directed to make those same unskilled/unintelligent/lazy people to whom you refer to feel a little bit better about themselves, akin to the money illusion that works almost every time, most recently putting around 25% of them of them eye-ball deep into home debtorship.

Just be astute enough to take advantage of the new loopholes that come into effect - if and when they apply to your situation - gifted to you by democrats and republicans alike - there's no difference - in the year or two after any increase in marginal tax rates, by then those unskilled/unintelligent/lazy will be in deep sleep. Just remember to pay your accountants/tax lawyers, the same democrats and republicans alike who make the tax rules, there's no difference.

Good Luck!
Good stuff. You will never be able to get that point across to the Government-Dumb Masses.

Last edited by proverbs23and7; 12-06-2012 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:18 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 20,225,747 times
Reputation: 22370
This guy is one of the many who are debunking the "facts" in the Ed Asner/ California Teacher's Union video:

How The World Works - YouTube
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:36 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,705,467 times
Reputation: 14178
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
Im out all the time, I am friends with lots of people who went to school, went to grad school, and then got professional licenses...doctors, lawyers, etc....I know only 1 person who had it all paid for....When my wife and I got married she had $123,000 in student debt...nothing was handed to her, she had no parachute, or silver spoon...she did not know anyone who would give her job, but she found one...a great one, because she worked harder and made the right decisions - NOT the easy ones. Its not luck that she got a great job - she made it happen. Luck is winning a lottery...its not lucky to work hard and get good grades through 12 years of school, 4 years of college, and 3 more years of grad school and then land a good job...that is not luck - it is the natural consequences of your actions.

Likewise its not bad luck that some girl age 16 has sex, gets pregnant, drops out of school and then can't get a good job that pays a decent wage. It is the natural consequence of poor decisions. For the US to function there must be a poor class who necessarily must work the jobs that pay very little...if there were not, then everything would be more expensive. Not every job can pay a living wage...those that don't should be used as gaps and props while a person improves themselves to get that better job. Unfortunately our government has intervened and told those people with no skills its not their fault - its the rich bosses fault - then instead of teaching him a skill to improve himself, they give him money and discourage him from improving his plight...that person then just goes about life thinking they are a victim and they never do a thing to get ahead again.

In life there are always 2 decisions - the good one and the bad one...then there are always 2 options, the easy way and the hard way. The bad decision and the easy way almost always mean that your choice will have an effect on your future.

In High School in stead of doing drugs, getting drunk every night, and having babies successful people, of all economic backgrounds study and prepare themselves for college...In college, instead of partying all the time and enrolling in worthless BA degrees,like History, Art, or Psychology, successful people study Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, Math, Pre-Med, etc...After college instead of taking the first middle class job that they are offered, successful people enrolled in grad school, choose a specialty, or select career paths that had growth opportunities.

The difference between the poor and the rich is not background, its smart choices.

You can tell me 100 sob stories, and when told truthfully, its usually pretty darn easy to determine where that person went wrong.
Most American's know the reality of being without funds from time to time, but, many know nothing about being well off. We have been caught up in the belief that America is somehow special when compared to the economic realities of other nations. Over the years we have seen a great migration of people from every poor nation on the planet, but we don't see a lot coming from the more prosperous nations. These newcomers are often better educated than their American counterparts and would love to do the work presently done by professional American's. They are both educated and poor. Nobody deserves to be looked down upon because others think they are manifesting some kind of economic principle that deems the labor of some to be more worthy than others, but it's fast becoming a popular notion that those who don't earn as much as others are somehow morally defective, that they had been drunk every night in their high school years, or, that they have taken the "easy way' regardless of the fact that many didn't get much of a choice of paths to begin with.

What does foreign migration really mean to us? It certainly looks like the U.S. is a magnet for those who aren't fairing well in their home countries, Doctors, Lawyers, Finance types, and others of a professional standing are experiencing the mass leveling of compensation in countries where skill and education are common. It also means that the U.S. may be a little late in the evolution of global labor paradigm shifts. The world has many poor people of every socio/economic stripe imaginable, that said, we can easily see the problem of thinking that education/skill/determination or hard work is the "natural path" to greater wealth. Lopsided opportunity creates a lopsided supply scenario for various types of labor. Are we to think that we will be a nation of "professionals" because not being professional means a lesser social/economic standing? Good luck with finding people to do the lesser skilled work when this becomes the thinking of the average American. Will we see the automobile tech, carpenter, or cook as someone who is really wanting to be the next Doctor but works on your car or house while attending university medical training?

Foreigners who HAVE made the "smart" choices are now finding themselves in a very competitive labor market at home, why? Well for one thing, education and opportunity are more evenly distributed in most countries than here in the U.S., not to mention that their social classes are much less stratified than ours. Personal decisions aside, we know that the social and economic constructs of a nation can create lesser or greater opportunities for people. In the case of so many nations that offer an education to all those that want it the democratization of such opportunity doesn't always translate as the key to making more money, it simply means you have skills, but, so does everyone else.

Sociologists have long been aware of the unique situation that American labor has found itself in, a popularized disdainful view towards blue collar or unskilled work has rendered us incapable of producing enough qualified technical workers. Japan has this same problem and finds the foreign worker presence in their country a significant detraction to Japanese consumer numbers. No nation ever truly prospers on the back of low wages or the notion that those low wages are somehow a reflection of a misspent youth or worse, a sign of low intelligence. To say that the poor are always lacking in the ability to make good decisions is to live in denial of the conclusions reached by those who have studied poverty from every perspective, most of the research suggests a much more complex dilemma than the average person would be willing to admit. Throughout my life, those I've admired have been richer in spirit and compassion than they were in material wealth, but that's the difference between my thinking and the reasoning of people who find great solace in their money and social position.....
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
 
1,832 posts, read 2,718,598 times
Reputation: 3754
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Sociologists have long been aware of the unique situation that American labor has found itself in, a popularized disdainful view towards blue collar or unskilled work has rendered us incapable of producing enough qualified technical workers. Japan has this same problem and finds the foreign worker presence in their country a significant detraction to Japanese consumer numbers. No nation ever truly prospers on the back of low wages or the notion that those low wages are somehow a reflection of a misspent youth or worse, a sign of low intelligence. To say that the poor are always lacking in the ability to make good decisions is to live in denial of the conclusions reached by those who have studied poverty from every perspective, most of the research suggests a much more complex dilemma than the average person would be willing to admit. Throughout my life, those I've admired have been richer in spirit and compassion than they were in material wealth, but that's the difference between my thinking and the reasoning of people who find great solace in their money and social position.....
Plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, hvac service people, etc generally all make good wages because they possess a skill the average person does not...

Most plumbers make substantially more money than a college graduate who chooses a worthless degree. Its about choices...There is nothing wrong with a blue collar job - it is good honest work at good honest pay. The real important thing here is that the job require skills that are greater than that of the average person if they expect above average pay.

There is no reason to pay the person flipping hamburgers the same amount of money as the person fixing your car, wiring or plumbing your house, etc...Intelligent people see the differences and choose the deferred gratification that comes with training for something better.

Choices matter...you can sugar coat it however you want but the only way to get ahead is to offer something that everyone else can not. If everyone can do it easily, the pay for that position will be minimal - as it should be....We as a society should not have to pay more for something that is readily available just so someone can have a better paying job.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:41 PM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,055,164 times
Reputation: 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bily Lovec View Post
Seriously ?
Ive never been to Martha's vineyard,
but according to obaba and his leg humpers Im rich and need to be punished.
This is nothing but class envy.
people with your attitude can KMA.
you must have a terrible ego to think i was speaking directly to you.

terrible how you can think that about those who care about the less fortunate and have human compassion. it is not being punished to care about others. the love of money over human lives is being human and not a sociopath.

i guess Jesus had a lot of class envy for wanting to help the less fortunate. if following Jesus's word makes me a liberal, what does the religious right follow?
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