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Old 12-13-2012, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,033,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post

You're all predicting some silly collapse of society. If that's the case, you want food, water, ammo. Not worthless metals.
The question is whether the US falls in isolation, or whether the entire planet drops. If the dollar is in collapse relative to the rest of the world, owing to unsupportable policy within the US economy, then any commodity will retain its value to the rest of the world. But if the entire world, including China, implodes in economic cataclysm, there won't be anything of value except guns and ammo and a willingness to use them effectively.

True, the USA will drag a lot of countries down the crapper along with us, but probably not all of them.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Or they just recognize how truly worthless many of these metals are. They're price is driven for a large part by manufacturing.

You're all predicting some silly collapse of society. If that's the case, you want food, water, ammo. Not worthless metals.

Metals these days are investment vehicles for speculating on.

Its all matter of the state of society.

* paper currency is a sovereign power which when it is not in dispute has more power than any metal does.
* gold tends to be popular with global financial turmoil because the international hegemonic state is in doubt.
* silver was the typical daily exchange unit. This would become important when even at the national level there is some turmoil and the currency within the sovereign is losing trust.
* food and ammo matter when society brakes down entirely.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:50 AM
 
9,982 posts, read 7,293,069 times
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I really think the naysayers, although they raise various points,
are choosing to believe something close to the status quo will
continue to exist unabated into the forseeable future, but there
are many reasons to expect the status quo to change significantly.
There is exponentially billions of more paper "gold" than physical gold,
same for silver. JP Morgan and other banks (not to mention countries)
are incapable of supplying their commitments, aka short positions.
Gold and Silver have immemorially been minted as real money.
Those who claim G/S will have little exchangability post-events cannot
claim that Federal Reserve Notes will hold up any better, or hold up at all.
Consider the unfunded commitments of the FDIC and the States, we're talking
about over 100 Trillion dollars unfunded if you include the private financial
institutions. What happens if satellites fail, or there is an EMP attack, or another
"terrorist" attack, or natural event ? Any run on the banks wouldn't last more
than a couple days. Banks are overleveraged already. They do not have anywhere
near the amount of cash required to fulfill the withdrawal demands of their clients.
Banks treat your money as it were their own, and push the liability on to the Feds,
but the Feds don't have the money to make good either. Plus, they only insure up
to 250k. If the FDIC ever had to make good on its insurance promises, the US
dollar would be worth easily less than half its current value.
As we speak the Treasury is borrowing 40 Bil per month in newly created FRN units
from the private Fed. The Fed is also spending another 45 Bil per month, again
newly created FRNs, to buy toxic mortgages. US real-time debt (not even the
total unfunded commitments) is set to cross 20 Trillion within 1-2 years or less.
The unemployment rolls are only "going down" because most of those people drop
out of the work force and go on disability and welfare. The others are working
part-time in low-paying service jobs. Obamacare=even more new spending.
Untold trillions of monies are sheltered offshore by the wealthy.

Realize other than their rarity and histories, I am not saying there is anything
particularly anti-inflationary about G/S. But I'm not going to buy and store
100,000 pounds of beef either. A beer was 5 cents in the 30's.
The same thin silver dime used to purchase a gallon of gas can still purchase
a gallon of gas (1/10th of a silver ounce, roughly), but the current fiat dimes
require 30. This will continue. New money supply is required. There was only
$20 Billion dollars in total circulation in the 1950's, now they won't even tell
us how much there is in circulation anymore, it's astronomical.
There is no ceiling on the price of precious metals. 15 times less platinum is
mined each year than gold. Remember the govt's and the elite do not care
about the value of the dollar, all they care about is economic activity, and
if lowering the value of the dollar stimulates economic activity, they are pleased.
Also when you consider all the increasing surveillance and restrictions on personal
liberty, who would want to be "on the books" as an individual ? It only hurts us
to be "on the books". Only transactions of over $10k per transaction are
reported to the IRS, and that's only if you transact with a IRS-filing supplier
or buyer. which leaves flexibility.

Last edited by Snowball7; 12-13-2012 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
 
7,459 posts, read 4,349,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The question is whether the US falls in isolation, or whether the entire planet drops. If the dollar is in collapse relative to the rest of the world, owing to unsupportable policy within the US economy, then any commodity will retain its value to the rest of the world. But if the entire world, including China, implodes in economic cataclysm, there won't be anything of value except guns and ammo and a willingness to use them effectively.

True, the USA will drag a lot of countries down the crapper along with us, but probably not all of them.
People still flock to US bonds from the rest of the world because despite our ills, we're on more solid ground then the majority. The only way I see the US going, is after and with the rest of the developed world.

Imagine a world without electricity. In te United States, the last thing people will be wanting is gold or silver.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 24,621,132 times
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I have said it for years, gold is a better investment than dollars. Mattress money is better as gold or silver. I basically dropped out of the system, no income for the last few years, and enjoy it tremendously. I buy things for cash which leaves no paper trail. There has been a ready market to sell gold and other PM's as well as trade for items of value. My biggest concern was food and fuel, and as of now i have 60% of my food grown at home and have a network of friends I can trade with. Years of experimentation have led to making my own fuels at home. It took all my effort to make the move to a rural area and I do not regret it. Any excess income I get from now on will go into parts. materials, ammo, chemicals and the remains in PM's.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
 
9,982 posts, read 7,293,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
I have said it for years, gold is a better investment than dollars. Mattress money is better as gold or silver. I basically dropped out of the system, no income for the last few years, and enjoy it tremendously. I buy things for cash which leaves no paper trail. There has been a ready market to sell gold and other PM's as well as trade for items of value. My biggest concern was food and fuel, and as of now i have 60% of my food grown at home and have a network of friends I can trade with. Years of experimentation have led to making my own fuels at home. It took all my effort to make the move to a rural area and I do not regret it. Any excess income I get from now on will go into parts. materials, ammo, chemicals and the remains in PM's.
::whiff:: freedom.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:37 PM
 
9,982 posts, read 7,293,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Imagine a world without electricity. In te United States, the last thing people will be wanting is gold or silver.
I don't agree. What if the power loss is temporary, but places terrible strain on the banking system,
when people lose all trust in the banks ? and the government ? and their "monies" ?
People have always wanted gold and silver, long before there was electricity.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:04 AM
 
4,281 posts, read 3,142,285 times
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I believe that the idea the US will fall into chaos is embraced by two sorts of people: The mentally ill and the chronically unsuccessful. The mentally ill have been standing in public with signs claiming "The End Is Near" since the beginning of time. The chronically unsuccessful have never been able to thrive in normal society, so they fantasize that one day they will be king of some Waco style compound and prove their worth with guns and stockpiled MREs.

If you drop out of society to live a simple uncluttered life then I applaud you. If you are considering dropping out due to paranoid fear encouraged by other barely educated mouth breathers, seek medical attention immediately.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:38 AM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,054,146 times
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You probably lost a lot of the opportunity to gain value of precious metals, but you can use them now to retain value as the fed goes through another quantitative easement. I think you have a good plan.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:37 AM
 
19,301 posts, read 16,828,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
People still flock to US bonds from the rest of the world because despite our ills, we're on more solid ground then the majority. The only way I see the US going, is after and with the rest of the developed world.

Imagine a world without electricity. In te United States, the last thing people will be wanting is gold or silver.

That is one popularly offered reason. The other more important one is central banks need to recycle treasuries back to the US to prevent the host country from having their currencies rise in value and having their goods being priced out of international markets.


Americans will be very happy to have gold and silver if the creditor countries succeed in an alternative exchange to bypass the dollar. The problem is finding the same liquidity of a large powerful debtor nation. That is the problem with a block of creditors. Debt creates short term liquidity and creditors are not going into debt. Countries that earn back their exchange make for poor intentional currencies.
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