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Old 12-13-2012, 09:07 PM
 
Location: IN
21,211 posts, read 36,837,458 times
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A Giant Statistical Round-Up of the Income Inequality Crisis in 16 Charts - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:06 PM
 
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While they did manage to distinguish between Earned Income (what working slobs do) as compared to Unearned Income (what the Top End tends to do), they did not hit on the more key part of Income (of any level) . . . Income does not equal or mean wealth.

Have Yacht v. Have Not is not about Income. It is about actual Wealth. Very different things, and taxes do not really touch that, at all.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:31 PM
 
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Crickets from conservatives.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:43 PM
 
4,800 posts, read 10,797,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Crickets from conservatives.
The conservatives have had no answer for this. It is a weakness in their political thinking they refuse to come to terms with, even now. But if liberals think they haven't contributed to this growth in income inequality, they are being willfully ignorant. It is no coincidence that much of the explosion in income inequality has happened at the same time there has been a massive increase in legal and illegal immigration into the US starting around 40 years ago. You can't turn a blind eye to 10s of millions are illegals in this country, and lots of poor legal immigrants too, and say that has no effect on the gap between rich and poor. There is plenty of corruption on both sides, design to benefit them only at the expense of the well being of the country.

Last edited by kanhawk; 12-15-2012 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,716 posts, read 16,729,659 times
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Pretty much says it all. All income groups are better off today. Many, especially the poor and working-class, are much stupider with their money now than they used to be then, which is why, despite being better off, they accumulate less wealth than they used to. Perhaps it's time to evaluate whether it's really necessary to have an iPhone, designer jeans, ten pairs of shoes, eat out multiple times a week, have 200 channels, and so on? The only way to get get capital income is to accumulate wealth. It'd be one thing if they were worse off, but that isn't the case. Everyone is better off, yet only the middle-class and wealthy (top 40%) have higher capital income while the bottom 60% has less despite being better off. Partly it's the down economy (you can see that graphically) but the trend goes back to the '80s when conspicuous consumption culture took off.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
14,013 posts, read 14,647,781 times
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The middle class and poor rely on a job as their primary source of income. Jobs are taxed at a higher rate than capital gains, and wages have stagnated for so long. COL keeps going up, yet jobs are continually offshored or eliminated.

The economic model that served this country well is becoming a thing of the past. As the need for labor continues to diminish, wages will stagnate if we're lucky. More than likely, they will decline. America will still look like a nice place for awhile. All those new houses and tall buildings will still make America look likely a relatively prosperous country. As time goes on, those houses will age, and new ones won't be built as frequently as in the past. In time, the appearance of America will start the reflect the pervasive income inequality. We will start to look a lot like Mexico. Many nice gated communities surrounded by many more slums. Expect crime rise, youthful dreams crushed, multi generational households, and an uphill battle most will lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Crickets from conservatives.
Maybe crickets from the republipukes. That party hasn't represented the views of the average conservative in a long time. As a conservative, I feel they sold us out to become cheerleaders for the 1%. Make it rain...



The 30 years "trickle down" experiment has provided us with all the data we need... Tax breaks for the rich will not make the average American any better off. Now we have to find a way to pay for our crumbling infrastructure, and everything else that's wrong with America today. The fact that the republicans are so adamantly opposed to raising taxes on the wealthy clearly shows whose side they are on.

If anything, I have nowhere to turn when deciding who to vote for. The democrats pander to the illegals, and I rely on a job for my primary source of income, so the republipukes want to turn my country into a 3rd world hell hole. Beautiful gated communities outnumbered by slums. Politics in America is a joke.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:31 PM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,561,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post

Pretty much says it all. All income groups are better off today. Many, especially the poor and working-class, are much stupider with their money now than they used to be then, which is why, despite being better off, they accumulate less wealth than they used to. Perhaps it's time to evaluate whether it's really necessary to have an iPhone, designer jeans, ten pairs of shoes, eat out multiple times a week, have 200 channels, and so on? The only way to get get capital income is to accumulate wealth. It'd be one thing if they were worse off, but that isn't the case. Everyone is better off, yet only the middle-class and wealthy (top 40%) have higher capital income while the bottom 60% has less despite being better off. Partly it's the down economy (you can see that graphically) but the trend goes back to the '80s when conspicuous consumption culture took off.

That chart only goes to 2007 before the crash.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
14,013 posts, read 14,647,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post

Pretty much says it all. All income groups are better off today. Many, especially the poor and working-class, are much stupider with their money now than they used to be then, which is why, despite being better off, they accumulate less wealth than they used to. Perhaps it's time to evaluate whether it's really necessary to have an iPhone, designer jeans, ten pairs of shoes, eat out multiple times a week, have 200 channels, and so on? The only way to get get capital income is to accumulate wealth. It'd be one thing if they were worse off, but that isn't the case. Everyone is better off, yet only the middle-class and wealthy (top 40%) have higher capital income while the bottom 60% has less despite being better off. Partly it's the down economy (you can see that graphically) but the trend goes back to the '80s when conspicuous consumption culture took off.
Of course income is up. Let's not forget, inflation has eaten away most of the gains made by the average American. Where is the graph showing the relationship between income growth and inflation? And the honest one... You know, the inflation rate that actually accounts for thing the average American buys like gasoline and food.

As for the poor recklessly spending their money... What money? I was "poor" once. Certainly wasn't any money left over for 200 channel television packages. I never ate out, not even fast food. I only owned 3 pair of shoes... One for work, one for going out, and one for job interviews. Only had the basic phone plan with the free phone included. Designer jeans??? What are you talking about? You get perfectly nice ones at Kohls for $20 and they look just fine. If anything, you probably figured they were designer jeans when you saw them.

I make decent money today. I still don't have TV. I use the internet as my primary source for news, programs and entertainment. I still have the basic phone service and a basic phone. I still have 3 pairs of shoes, I only own about 5 pairs of jeans, I drive an 8 year old car... I'm about as "average American" as it gets, and guess what... In order to adequately fund a 401k (10% yearly income), afford a place of my own, afford utilities, afford the various services I consume, there is not enough money to do all those things you believe the poor are doing. I could spend more, but that would require scaling back on saving for retirement. Since retirement is going to be an impossibility for a large segment of the population, I realize I have to do everything possible to ensure I will have the money I will need for the future. Since the banks are paying microscopic interest rates, and the stock market is risky, that means I have to double down on the savings to feel secure. Eventually, this system if going to experience more turbulence as people simply won't be able to consume like before. Even more reason to save now.

I have no clue where people get this mentality that all average American's problems are all their fault. No clue at all. If anything, it's an "I got mine" attitude.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,716 posts, read 16,729,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
The conservatives have had no answer for this. It is a weakness in their political thinking they refuse to come to terms with, even now. But if liberals think they haven't contributed to this growth in income inequality, they are being willfully ignorant. It is no coincidence that much of the explosion in income inequality has happened at the same time there has been a massive increase in legal and illegal immigration into the US starting around 40 years ago. You can't turn a blind eye to 10s of millions are illegals in this country, and lots of poor legal immigrants too, and say that has no effect on the gap between rich and poor. There is plenty of corruption on both sides, design to benefit them only at the expense of the well being of the country.
Most conservatives, and many liberals which is what I personally identify as, don't really give a hoot about equality of outcome. Many liberals, myself included, only really care about equality of opportunity. There's a lot to be concerned with on that account as America's primary and secondary education is pretty pathetic. Higher education is still very good but accessibility is become more and more of an issue. Conservatives are more split on equality of opportunity. A frightening number of them really don't care, even while those they hero worship such as Reagan were staunch supporters and champions of equality of opportunity.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,716 posts, read 16,729,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Of course income is up. Let's not forget, inflation has eaten away most of the gains made by the average American. Where is the graph showing the relationship between income growth and inflation? And the honest one... You know, the inflation rate that actually accounts for thing the average American buys like gasoline and food.
That graph does. That's what real income is. I'm sure shadowstats will present a non-Core CPI graph as if that isn't also reported as if it were some huge conspiracy, perhaps you could find it there? That graph doesn't say, but I assume it's using either Core or Chained CPI.

Quote:
I make decent money today. I still don't have TV. I use the internet as my primary source for news, programs and entertainment. I still have the basic phone service and a basic phone. I still have 3 pairs of shoes, I only own about 5 pairs of jeans, I drive an 8 year old car... I'm about as "average American" as it gets, and guess what... In order to adequately fund a 401k (10% yearly income), afford a place on my own, afford utilities, afford the various services I consume, there is not enough money to do all those things you believe the poor are doing. I could spend more, but that would require scaling back on saving for retirement. Since the banks are paying microscopic interest rates, and the stock market is risky, that means I have to double down on the savings to feel secure.
And if you continue saving 10%, you'll be offsetting the trend. The average American doesn't save at all. You aren't average. Let me congratulate you on not being average and living below your means!

Quote:
I have no clue where people get this mentality that all average American's problems are their fault. No clue at all. If anything, it's an "I got mine" attitude.
Hello straw man, nice to meet you too =D
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