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Old 12-17-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 53,732,725 times
Reputation: 24696

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IMHO Private Equity equals private responsibility. The owners and managers of the equity fund should be held personally responsible for the pensions of the employees and all other debts of the company to the full extent of their personal fortunes.

You want the big bucks? Put all your bucks on the line.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:00 PM
 
3,763 posts, read 11,203,979 times
Reputation: 6763
The pension wasn't guaranteed by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp?

If it was - then the pensioneers should still get a benefit, but likely less than they would have gotten from the original Hostess Pension.

Sad situation.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:10 PM
 
344 posts, read 388,322 times
Reputation: 318
Quote:
Social security has been running a surplus, they have built up funds.

Try googling it. It's all there in simplistic terms for people to easily understand... SS cannot borrow money, or spend more than it takes in or has in surplus from past years. It cannot go into debt...
Youre not serious are you?

I would never trust a company to fund my retirement regardless if I pay into it or not. Too much risk.
[LEFT]

[/LEFT]
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:36 PM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,043,016 times
Reputation: 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
I can name 100s of companies that did not raid their employees pensions....

- TIAA-CREF
- Johnson & Johnson
- BASF
- Panasonic
- IBM

Just to name a few...
No wonder you have no evidence. You have no idea what you are talking about and you haven't bothered to do any research. If you are not going to tell the truth, and simply be willfully ignorant, I don't see why you should be taken seriously.

Quote:
Over the last decade, some of the biggest companies — including Bank of America, IBM, General Motors, GE and even the NFL — found loopholes, abused ambiguous regulations and used litigation to turn their employees’ hard-earned retirement funds into profits, and in some cases, executive compensation. Schultz’s book offers a relentlessly infuriating look at the mechanisms they used to get away with it.
From the previously posted link: The theft of the American pension - Salon.com
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:50 PM
 
24,497 posts, read 37,117,507 times
Reputation: 12867
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
No wonder you have no evidence. You have no idea what you are talking about and you haven't bothered to do any research. If you are not going to tell the truth, and simply be willfully ignorant, I don't see why you should be taken seriously.



From the previously posted link: The theft of the American pension - Salon.com
It only takes one company to show that you're wrong. Unless you can show that all the companies (not just IBM) have raided pensions, you're full of BS. How about you provide evidence that every single company has raided pensions, since that's your claim. That's right, you can't... because you're full of crap and it's not true.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:28 PM
 
7,036 posts, read 4,236,541 times
Reputation: 6709
Quote:
Originally Posted by proverbs23and7 View Post
Youre not serious are you?

I would never trust a company to fund my retirement regardless if I pay into it or not. Too much risk.
[LEFT]

[/LEFT]
What are you talking about...


Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
IMHO Private Equity equals private responsibility. The owners and managers of the equity fund should be held personally responsible for the pensions of the employees and all other debts of the company to the full extent of their personal fortunes.

You want the big bucks? Put all your bucks on the line.

Private Equity has never equaled the slightest responsibility.

Private Equity isn't even what these firms do. "Private Equity" is completely misleading.

They do leveraged buyouts. They borrow a ton of cash, chip in a little of their own cash, strip out every penny they can from a company, sell equipment/lay people off, etc. They look to pump up the books short term, and within five years sell the company, or let it go into bankruptcy, taking the debt with it. Why should they care? They're protected, and still make boatloads of cash.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:24 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,121,140 times
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Every company in America does not have to be be complicit for it to be a serious threat to many workers.

Management can overstate earnings and use pension models that assume lower necessary contributions. They overspend on expansion/operations and after the bottom falls out they stop making pension contributions. They also can use money from the pension fund to encourage early retirement so they would not have to pay severance out of the operations budget. Legal, but sneaky! In good years they may take money from the "overfunded" pension and when the bad years came around they cancel contributions and freeze pensions! Ask me how I know.

Typically, by the time the SHTF the executives who made these decisions are long gone and serving on the board of another large corporation.

Saying there are companies that have not (yet) raided pension funds, is not evidence that other companies haven't done this sort of thing.

I can name hundreds of people who have never been robbed or murdered, hence there is no crime in America!

Last edited by shaker281; 12-18-2012 at 04:33 AM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:37 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,121,140 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by proverbs23and7 View Post
Youre not serious are you?

I would never trust a company to fund my retirement regardless if I pay into it or not. Too much risk.
[LEFT]

[/LEFT]
These employees had no choice in the matter. Money was diverted to pensions from their paychecks before they received it. Then the money was pilfered. Some folks would find that unsettling!
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:00 AM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,043,016 times
Reputation: 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
It only takes one company to show that you're wrong. Unless you can show that all the companies (not just IBM) have raided pensions, you're full of BS. How about you provide evidence that every single company has raided pensions, since that's your claim. That's right, you can't... because you're full of crap and it's not true.
I said companies across the board, meaning in all industries that have pension had members that raided them (from the dictionary, first three words - Including all categories). Not every company in the US has pensions to raid! You are narrowing down in such severe tunnel vision on an alternate definition of the meaning of three words you decided to re-context that you are missing everything else being said and shown you. That either shows a severe willful ignorance, or apathy, to the subject that hurts many Americans.

Definitions don't addresses that you said you knew IBM had not raided pensions when they had. I had already provided the background to say they had. You have yet to address your lie in this matter, and I see you decided to ignore that in your reply. Since you got caught in a lie you should show integrity.

If we didn't have so many people that lacked integrity that stole pensions, and defend those who have done it by lying, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:45 AM
 
7,036 posts, read 4,236,541 times
Reputation: 6709
Quote:
Neiman issued a special dividend to its owners of $435 a share earlier this year at a cost of about $449 million. Although company executives boasted that the dividend reflected their confidence in the company's growth prospects and outlook, analysts aren't buying it. Skeptics noted that Neiman had to borrow $150 million to pay for it, and accused the PE owners of lining their pockets at the expense of the company. The dividend boosted the company's already high debt level.
Another example of how Private Equity behaves. A private equity firm is looking to offload Neiman Marcus.
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