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View Poll Results: Would going over the fiscal Cliff be good or bad.
Yes it would be good for the country. 36 72.00%
No it would not be good for the country 14 28.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2012, 07:27 AM
 
10,825 posts, read 10,472,693 times
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Quote:
the tax increases are bad, the spending cuts dont go far enough
Herein lies the problem. Some of us don't believe all the budget problems should be solved by reductions to programs to those who need them the most. Some of us don't believe--as the GOP does--that the military budget is sacrosanct from budget cuts--while people on TANF, foodstamps, and medicaid may actually go hungry or without medical care.

The only way there will be any deal at all is if both sides compromise. Yes, this means modest tax increases for the wealthiest groups in this country. It will require budget cuts too, but not on the scale of those envisioned by GOP leaders.

Elections have consequences. The GOP House isn't going to get to call this one. Although, it is reasonable to expect the Senate and the President to have to compromise with them.

I don't want to go off the fiscal cliff either. However, that result is preferable to giving a party that lost the election--and the mandate of the voters--the right to control the result of the budget talks.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:43 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
36,642 posts, read 40,458,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Elections have consequences. The GOP House isn't going to get to call this one. Although, it is reasonable to expect the Senate and the President to have to compromise with them.

I don't want to go off the fiscal cliff either. However, that result is preferable to giving a party that lost the election--and the mandate of the voters--the right to control the result of the budget talks.
Keep in mind the People sent a majority of Republicans to the House. I would not call this "Losing the Election". The GOP House is doing the will of the majority who sent them to DC.

I wouldn't say the GOP lost the election.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,602,926 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Herein lies the problem. Some of us don't believe all the budget problems should be solved by reductions to programs to those who need them the most. Some of us don't believe--as the GOP does--that the military budget is sacrosanct from budget cuts--while people on TANF, foodstamps, and medicaid may actually go hungry or without medical care.

The only way there will be any deal at all is if both sides compromise. Yes, this means modest tax increases for the wealthiest groups in this country. It will require budget cuts too, but not on the scale of those envisioned by GOP leaders.

Elections have consequences. The GOP House isn't going to get to call this one. Although, it is reasonable to expect the Senate and the President to have to compromise with them.

I don't want to go off the fiscal cliff either. However, that result is preferable to giving a party that lost the election--and the mandate of the voters--the right to control the result of the budget talks.
I am not sure you are seeing the problem for what it is. War and Welfare are two sides of the same coin.
The politicians work for big business which profits from both war and welfare equally. To think you can have one without the other ignores reality. They are both necessary in order to facilitate the financial insolvency and moral degradation that is fundamental to the goals of the elite.
The politicians will never do what is in the best interest of the country so long as the people filling their pockets can influence them.
To allow the fiscal cliff to happen would postpone the misery that will result from the constant looting of the economy that will eventually result in a state of virtual slavery for the people.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:34 AM
Status: "Bartlet, er Biden, for America!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,229 posts, read 68,788,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
I am not sure you are seeing the problem for what it is.
War and Welfare are two sides of the same coin.
Only when that coin is actually dropped into the slot.

Most of the problem today are based in years of unfunded war...
The rest is insult on top of that injury by the reduction of taxes during this period.
iow: The chicken has come home to roost.

You don't have to like it... but you will have to pay for it.
Just like the rest of us.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:42 AM
 
10,825 posts, read 10,472,693 times
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Quote:
Keep in mind the People sent a majority of Republicans to the House. I would not call this "Losing the Election". The GOP House is doing the will of the majority who sent them to DC.

I wouldn't say the GOP lost the election.
The GOP won about 234 of 435 House seats up for election. Democrats gained approximately 9 seats in the election and won approximately 201. That's the result that's important because it dictates what party controls the House.

However, if you look at the percentage of voters in the USA who voted for a democrat as compared to a republican House member than this is what you'd see:

49.1 percent voted democrat

48.1 percent voted republican

2.3 percent voted for a third party or independent candidate.

In essence, while the GOP controls the House, it didn't win the support of a majority, or even a plurality, of those voting for a Congressman. The reason the GOP could do this and win a majority of seats is because of the way congressional districts are gerrymandered by the political party that controls a state legislature. Since more legislatures were controlled in 2011 by the GOP than by democrats, the GOP was able to obtain control of more seats.

You can tell me that this is the way "the system works" and I won't argue that point. I will argue the point that the GOP victory in terms of winning a majority of the House seats represents the will of the American people. It clearly does not and democrat victories (by real majorities) in the Senate and in the race for the Presidency demonstrate that fact. Public opinion polls strongly suggest that the majority of people want higher taxes on wealthier economic groups along with realistic budget cuts.

People like Grover Norquist and the Tea Party shouldn't dictate the outcome of this process. I hope Congress can arrive at a compromise that includes both budget cuts and tax increases for the wealthiest groups. Honestly, if it can't than I favor going over the cliff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2012
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,059,569 times
Reputation: 36314
I suspect that the 1% will use the Fiscsl Cliff as a tool, to justify their hoarding more wealth for themselves, to justify not investing their money to create jobs, to justify higher prices and lower productivity costs. It is not the Fiscsl Cliff that threatens the economy, it is the willingness of the moneyed to blame the fiscal cliff (and therefore, Obama) for a declining economy that they can somehow continue to use to get richer. One thing you can be absolutely sure of, fiscal cliff or not, is that the rich will get richer unless regulated. That's the incentive to strive to get rich in the first place -- to gain the economic power to get even richer. Nothing shifts the cards more in their favor than an imaginary crisis.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-28-2012 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:23 AM
 
84 posts, read 168,521 times
Reputation: 158
I hope our country falls off the proverbial fiscal cliff. I hope the military gets cut. I hope government employees get fired. I hope our government gets cut so severe that it causes a political civil war. Please, please, please god make this happen. As a tax paying working stiff, I have never authorized our government to take my money. I have never authorized my government to use my money to kill innocent men, women, and children in another country. I have never authorize my government to use my money to pay government employees to rebuild another country after we bombed them to the Stone Age. **** these military idiots and I hope they get their funds cuts by half. These retired military people need to get their retirement cut also. These idiots are the true leaches of our society. These retired military are sucking off the teet of society. These retired military idiots are the true welfare queens and should have their money cut just like everybody else. In fact, I think the military budget should be directly connected to Medicare, Medicade, social security, welfare, section 8, food stamps, Meals on Wheels, and every other social program that helps the poor. Then, maybe, our government will wake up from their dream and work together for the common good of the people. military and government needs a good proverbial back-hand to the face. Can I get an amen???
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: NJ
28,803 posts, read 33,530,544 times
Reputation: 21123
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Herein lies the problem. Some of us don't believe all the budget problems should be solved by reductions to programs to those who need them the most. Some of us don't believe--as the GOP does--that the military budget is sacrosanct from budget cuts--while people on TANF, foodstamps, and medicaid may actually go hungry or without medical care.

The only way there will be any deal at all is if both sides compromise. Yes, this means modest tax increases for the wealthiest groups in this country. It will require budget cuts too, but not on the scale of those envisioned by GOP leaders.

Elections have consequences. The GOP House isn't going to get to call this one. Although, it is reasonable to expect the Senate and the President to have to compromise with them.

I don't want to go off the fiscal cliff either. However, that result is preferable to giving a party that lost the election--and the mandate of the voters--the right to control the result of the budget talks.
most government spending isnt "money for those who need it most" its waste.

cutting spending modestly isnt going to do anything to reduce our budget deficit.

our politicians now seem to like to talk in 10 year numbers. so lets say we have the 2012 deficity of $1.1 trillion. thats $11 trillion deficit over 10 years, that gets added to the current debt that is above $16 trilion. so i believe the republicans are proposing $2.5 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years, when we need to make up an $11 trillion deficit. so that leaves $8.5 trillion in added debt. how is that supposed to be made up???????

the republicans arent proposing nearly enough spending cuts to make a dent in our debt.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:48 AM
 
4,246 posts, read 10,995,309 times
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What I'd like to see

Stop giving out welfare to countries
Stop the War on Drugs
Bring all troops home from every country and make them defend themselves
Require drug testing for domestic welfare recipients
Deport all non working, non tax paying illegals
Require anyone voted into office that their tax returns made public. If they own stocks, this must be made public.
No voting for their own pay raises.
Abolish all lobbyist groups and individuals.
Remove all individual/family tax credits (child credit, mortgage interest, charities).
Shrink the tax code to no more than 1 page in 10 font
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:23 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,923,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Keep in mind the People sent a majority of Republicans to the House. I would not call this "Losing the Election". The GOP House is doing the will of the majority who sent them to DC.

I wouldn't say the GOP lost the election.
Karl? Is that you?
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