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Well, I suppose that is one remedy to the overlarge growth numbers. But I'm not offering any such remedies. I'll be satisfied to identify what the actual problem is first. Once identified problems will often offer their own solutions.
US birth rates are currently BELOW replacement level. They are at their lowest levels since the 1920's. Fears are expressed daily about negative implications for future economic growth. These extremely low birth rates are a prime reason why we will eventually HAVE TO adopt open-border policies.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
You want numbers?
Got 'em already in spades, actually.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
I have been one of those who worried. Mine began nearly 40 years ago with the utter rejection
of the highly rational principles of Zero Population Growth.
The rationality of the ZPG movement was running on empty even in its own time which is why Paul Ehrlich's credibility was so fleeting. The Pill, Roe v Wade, and the migration of women out of patriarchal bondage and into classrooms and then boardrooms upended all that logic entirely. You need to download the latest patches and updates.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
We have grown 50% more people in the US since 1970 (203M vs 310M when ZPG was first
a common discussion) with far too few of us being anything actually productive.
Uh-huh. This whole "actually productive" thing is so goofy that even you can't explain it.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
It used to be that way in the US and the west in general... but now we're just not creating more "new" real jobs (real = well paying industrial and labor positions with benefits).
Well, we got rid of all those unions. What did you expect to happen to pay and benefits as the result? And what does "industrial" have to do with anything? Do HR officers in the steel industry count?
US birth rates are currently BELOW replacement level.
Only at the highest levels.
People who actually pay their own way tend to be self regulating.
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These extremely low birth rates are a prime reason why we will eventually
HAVE TO adopt open-border policies.
We will? What will they be here to do?
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And what does "industrial" have to do with anything?
Production of durable goods.
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Again... I'm not offering remedies. I'll be satisfied to identify what the actual problem is first.
Once identified problems will often offer their own solutions.
Do you have any notions about what the problems really are?
I'll reiterate my view that the economic problems we have (pretty much all of them) are rooted in the
overlarge population we have. This is the larger truth behind the stagnant un and under employment.
The balance of the US economy is getting along just fine with out those other 20-40 Million people being
fully employed.
The unemployment problem is less about not having enough jobs for all that may need one than it is about having more people available to work than there are jobs that actually need doing. It's really that simple.
The raw number of total annual work hours has decreased deeply...
at the same time that the raw number of people has increased deeply.
Do the math.
The jobs that we have no available candidates for. You're aware that the labor force particpation rate is declining in the long term, and that absent a meaningful uptick in immigration, the number of people leaving the workforce will be regularly exceeding the number entering by a significant margin? You're aware that as the population ages, demand for health care and other personal services that immigrants already specialize in will be increasing inexorably?
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Originally Posted by MrRational
Production of durable goods.
LOL. Okay, forget "industrial". What does production of durable goods have to do with anything?
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Originally Posted by MrRational
Again... I'm not offering remedies. I'll be satisfied to identify what the actual problem is first. Once identified problems will often offer their own solutions. Do you have any notions about what the problems really are?
Sure. Faux-Libertarian, free-market, laissez-faire madness. It's football without referees.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
I'll reiterate my view that the economic problems we have (pretty much all of them) are rooted in the overlarge population we have.
Can you point to any society that has had a successful economy and a declining population at the same time?
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Originally Posted by MrRational
This is the larger truth behind the stagnant un and under employment. The balance of the US economy is getting along just fine with out those other 20-40 Million people being fully employed. The unemployment problem is less about not having enough jobs for all that may need one than it is about having more people available to work than there are jobs that actually need doing. It's really that simple. The raw number of total annual work hours has decreased deeply...at the same time that the raw number of people has increased deeply. Do the math.
It's important to do the right math. It's also important to undertand the role of techonology and its impact on productivity and of the functions that define individual and social work-leisure preferences. If I discover a new technology that lets me produce the same output X at the same cost Y using only half the number of employees I used to need, that does NOT create an unemployment problem. It creates an income distribution problem. Think about that and get back to me.
Can you point to any society that has had a successful economy and a declining population at the same time?
Strawman much?
Up to now saturation hasn't been the issue it has become. It's been talked about over the centuries
but there has always been room to grow and expand... literally, figuratively and economically.
Anyway... I'm done with the rolling goalposts and trading jabs around the edges.
If you ever have an original thought or maybe regurgitate a statement that describes your view
on a point feel free to post it. If you can ever find the ability to stick with one point and follow it
down to wherever it might settle... maybe I'll join in on that.
Up to now saturation hasn't been the issue it has become. It's been talked about over the centuries
but there has always been room to grow and expand... literally, figuratively and economically.
There still is plenty of room to grow and expand, but declining birth rates make the need for growth and expansion smaller and smaller while technology makes it easier and easier to attain. Malthus was wrong. Ehrlich was wrong. You are wrong.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
Anyway... I'm done with the rolling goalposts and trading jabs around the edges. If you ever have an original thought or maybe regurgitate a statement that describes your view on a point feel free to post it. If you can ever find the ability to stick with one point and follow it down to wherever it might settle... maybe I'll join in on that. Be well.
Uh-huh. I'm sure you'd have done better with points for which some actual defense could have been made. But you didn't raise very many of those.
"One reason companies are so profitable is that they're paying employees less than they ever have as a share of GDP. And that, in turn, is one reason the economy is so weak: Those "wages" are other companies' revenue.
In short, our current system and philosophy is creating a country of a few million overlords and 300+ million serfs." Blodget
"There has been class warfare going on," Buffett, 81, said in a Sept. 30 interview with Charlie Rose on PBS. It's just that my class is winning. And my class isn't just winning, I mean we're killing them."
"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks," Buffett wrote in a Sunday New York Times Op-ed.
All opinions, etc. welcomed and encouraged!!!
Dont stick the bill to those who have overcome the great difficulties this country presents to hard working educated citizens(they have put the number at $250,000), you are targeting Doctors and business owners(who else makes these money sums the gov. is suggesting targeting).
middle class should start at 5 million and end at at 50 million...lets start getting our definitions in order.
Stop letting illegal immigrants in here to take our simple labor jobs away, even if they do represent votes for Democrats(NYC,MA, FL, Illinois, CA,AZ,NM).
Raise the minimum wage to a livable wage that will put more money in the hands of those who live paycheck to paycheck. No retiree on Social Security should be getting under $1,000 a month.
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