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On the other hand, a "Rockefeller" who loses all of his money will never be considered lower class, no matter how poor financially, because he will have so much cultural capital -- education, travel, languages, cultural knowledge, friends in high places, and so forth.
I disagree. Money buys respect, not education, knowledge, or life experiences. Try walking into a diner and get a free meal just because you were wealthy once in your life. Unless you were once famous or some other former celebrity, chances are you would leave hungry.
I disagree. Money buys respect, not education, knowledge, or life experiences. Try walking into a diner and get a free meal just because you were wealthy once in your life. Unless you were once famous or some other former celebrity, chances are you would leave hungry.
Money buys goods and services. Money does not buy respect, except among lower-class people, for example in inner-city Baltimore.
Have you seen the old movie "High Society?" It's pretty good -- has Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Grace Kelly, and Frank Sinatra. During the filming of the movie, the actor Frank Sinatra (the real Frank, not his character on the screen) supposedly fell in love with the actress Grace Kelly (not her character). But Grace wouldn't have anything to do with Frank, because she supposedly thought he was little more than white trash with a lot of money and a good voice, due to his potty mouth and his alleged association with organized crime. This illustrated how complicated social class can be.
But here, I think, is a better question: if someone is happy with his life, why would he care what class he belongs to? Suppose Frank really was WT with money -- he no doubt had a fine time and a very good life. But he wasn't necessarily upper class, despite being very rich (again, so what?).
And then there's the Pope. He makes, what, 30K per year? Would anybody seriously say that he was lower-middle class rather than upper class? When I was working, I made a lot more money than the Governor of North Carolina (my state). Would any serious person say that I was higher in social class than he?
Money buys goods and services. Money does not buy respect, except among lower-class people, for example in inner-city Baltimore.
Have you seen the old movie "High Society?" It's pretty good -- has Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Grace Kelly, and Frank Sinatra. During the filming of the movie, the actor Frank Sinatra (the real Frank, not his character on the screen) supposedly fell in love with the actress Grace Kelly (not her character). But Grace wouldn't have anything to do with Frank, because she supposedly thought he was little more than white trash with a lot of money and a good voice, due to his potty mouth and his alleged association with organized crime. This illustrated how complicated social class can be.
But here, I think, is a better question: if someone is happy with his life, why would he care what class he belongs to? Suppose Frank really was WT with money -- he no doubt had a fine time and a very good life. But he wasn't necessarily upper class, despite being very rich (again, so what?).
And then there's the Pope. He makes, what, 30K per year? Would anybody seriously say that he was lower-middle class rather than upper class? When I was working, I made a lot more than the Governor of North Carolina (my state). Would any serious person say that I was higher in social class than he?
It's complicated . . .
Mr Forbes you are higher class than the Gov of NC.
You didn't mention your occupation or level of education.
I work in a manager role as a sales & marketing guy for a music venue. I have my undergrad from a small state school in Minnesota. I have no plans to get a MBA or masters.
Director levels in my position will make between $80k - $100k and VPs will make around $150k... so I could become upper middle class someday.
In addition, if I keep investing $1500k/month into the market, get an average of a 9% return and never get a raise in the next 30 years (which is unlikely), I'll have around 2 million dollars saved, all done on $65k... that would define me as rich, right?
yoyoma -- I think that you are doing fine! Comfortably middle class now, and probably headed for upper middle, in my opinion (which is just another opinion, of course).
During the filming of the movie, the actor Frank Sinatra (the real Frank, not his character on the screen) supposedly fell in love with the actress Grace Kelly (not her character). But Grace wouldn't have anything to do with Frank, because she supposedly thought he was little more than white trash with a lot of money and a good voice, due to his potty mouth and his alleged association with organized crime. This illustrated how complicated social class can be.
That movie was made in 1956, I don't think something that happened over 50 years is a good comparison to today's society. Sure there are stuck up snobs that believe in rigid social classes, but they are a minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
Money buys goods and services.
Your right, and if I want to make money from you, I'm going to treat you well to get some of it. Sure I may be thinking what a jerk, but I'm not going to say it out loud or treat you that way, any more than I'm going to use racial slurs based on your race or sexual orientation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
And then there's the Pope. He makes, what, 30K per year? Would anybody seriously say that he was lower-middle class rather than upper class?
Poor example. The pope lives in a city he pretty much controls. With libraries, museums of priceless artwork, servants, free housing, free food, clothing, and even his own security forces. While he certainly doesn't own Vatican city he wields considerable power over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
When I was working, I made a lot more money than the Governor of North Carolina (my state). Would any serious person say that I was higher in social class than he?
Same situation, even though the Governor of North Carolina doesn't own the state, he has considerable power while in office. He has access to 10,000 national guard troops among other resources in the state. Money is power, but you can have power without money too.
And in the end that's what social class are, how much power you have in society. While in theory we are all equal in this country, you have more money to hire better lawyers, than I could so you have more power than me. Being wealthy isn't an automatic get out of jail free card, but it certainly helps.
Last edited by TechGromit; 02-22-2013 at 02:25 PM..
I was having a discussion with my roommate last night on what the middle class looks like. I tend to think of myself as middle class, but I wanted to get everyone opinions on it...
I make $65k/year
I'm 29, male
I have no debt
I rent a high-end apartment in Los Angeles
I save about $1500 - $2000 a month (retirement and mutual funds)
I drive a paid for 2009 Toyota with 46000 miles on it.
I am single, no dependents, no kids
I have a networth of about $150k
I work a full-time job, Monday - Friday
I don't feel strapped for cash, but I'm relativity conservative with my money
What am I? Lower class? Middle Class? Upper Middle Class? If I continue saving like I have been... I will be on my way to Upper Middle Class in the next 10 years, correct?
Yes, I'd say you're middle class on the way to upper middle, provided you are able to keep your job and keep up your savings rate.
...In addition, if I keep investing $1500k/month into the market, get an average of a 9% return and never get a raise in the next 30 years (which is unlikely), I'll have around 2 million dollars saved, all done on $65k... that would define me as rich, right?
You won't qualify as rich on just two mil after 30 years thanks to inflation. But you won't be eating dog food either. Or living in a van down by the river. Unless that's what floats your boat.
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