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Old 03-24-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,305,478 times
Reputation: 27718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by matzoman View Post
I think a lot of people would. The higher pay gives one incentive. A low level minimum wage worker now has almost no incentive to work because with their wages they can not save anything. Indentured servitude. Most of these Mcworkers are being subsidized by some form of welfare. good times....
The US is a nation of spenders, not savers.
Last month our savings rate was about 2.6%, our average is 3%.

If a min wage worker has no incentive to work at min wage they will still have no incentive if they got magically bumped up 3x what they made for just being there.

And once all products and services adjust to that 3x increase they will be right back where they were, not being able to afford anything.


What you're doing is rewarding the choice to remain unskilled.
They will make more than college graduate starting salaries.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The East
1,557 posts, read 3,295,980 times
Reputation: 2328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The US is a nation of spenders, not savers.
Last month our savings rate was about 2.6%, our average is 3%.

If a min wage worker has no incentive to work at min wage they will still have no incentive if they got magically bumped up 3x what they made for just being there.

And once all products and services adjust to that 3x increase they will be right back where they were, not being able to afford anything.


What you're doing is rewarding the choice to remain unskilled.
They will make more than college graduate starting salaries.
Agreed, But for the working poor there is little 'money' or 'time' to become 'skilled'. A few decades ago you were able to learn a trade as an apprentice for free. Many apprenticeship programs have been cancelled and trade schools are too expensive for the working poor.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 4,715,800 times
Reputation: 2377
Dr Benjamin Carson who spoke at the Obama prayer breakfast and said Obamacare will hurt the poor, and
who came from the Cleveland ghettos and worked his butt off to become a hugely successful man was
asked the key influence to his accomplishments. He stated that his mother, who worked as a janitor,
always told him as a child "Never blame your station in life as the reason you can't achieve anything
you want."
He went on to say that we need to empower poor people to excel, rather than validate their poverty by
providing non-stop entitlement programs.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:32 AM
 
20,625 posts, read 19,284,184 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The US is a nation of spenders, not savers.
Last month our savings rate was about 2.6%, our average is 3%.

If a min wage worker has no incentive to work at min wage they will still have no incentive if they got magically bumped up 3x what they made for just being there.

And once all products and services adjust to that 3x increase they will be right back where they were, not being able to afford anything.


What you're doing is rewarding the choice to remain unskilled.
They will make more than college graduate starting salaries.
Our gross savings rate is quite high. The reason is because our savings is generally putting someone else into debt. That is why out net savings sucks. Its akin to growing our assets by having a wealth of slaves, who will save for us. Where is the tangible industrial capital?


The problem is housing again. Housing values must net to zero from the basis of industrial capacity.


In short we need to channel our savings away from feeding debtors. As long as this structure remains we will not have true savings, just more debt and more debtors who will default again and expose our savings for what they are, debt. All debt based savings nets to zero.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 03-24-2013 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:32 AM
 
31,679 posts, read 40,959,250 times
Reputation: 14424
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzoman View Post
Agreed, But for the working poor there is little 'money' or 'time' to become 'skilled'. A few decades ago you were able to learn a trade as an apprentice for free. Many apprenticeship programs have been cancelled and trade schools are too expensive for the working poor.
May be not so true.

Low-Wage Workers Not Taking Advantage Of Job Training Programs: Survey

Quote:
As they struggle to get ahead, many low-wage workers are not taking advantage of job training or educational programs that could help them make the leap to better-paying jobs. They are often skeptical about whether such programs are even worth the trouble, a new survey shows.

In many cases, workers in low-wage positions are not using the training programs their employers offer because they don't even know they exist, the two-part AP-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research survey of both workers and employers found. Two-thirds of employers said they offer coaching or mentoring programs and 61 percent provide on-the-job training. But only 36 percent of low-wage workers reported that their employers offer such programs.

The ability to move up the career ladder has become more important as America's economic recovery is fueled by a surge in low-wage jobs at restaurants, health care centers and manufacturing sites. Job training and education can play a major role in helping these workers advance their careers and someday reach middle-class status. At the same time, employers say they invest in job training to retain current workers, reduce turnover and improve the quality of products and services.

Yet the surveys revealed a wide disparity between employers and workers in how they view the importance of training programs. While 83 percent of employers said job training is extremely or very important for upward mobility, only half of low-wage workers felt as strongly about additional training. Similarly, 77 percent of employers rated education as extremely or very important, while only 41 percent of low-wage workers rated it similarly.
You can lead a horse only so far and this is the Huffington Post.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:38 AM
 
20,625 posts, read 19,284,184 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post

Works like all other stupid socialist approaches. Add to aggregate demand with enough supply of credit and encourage business to train their own workers.


Quote:
You can lead a horse only so far and this is the Huffington Post.
Especially when there is no liquidity...that is to say the horse cannot drink the water when its a dry river bed. Debt deflation .....


The damage is even worse since good workers cannot accumulate capital to create market competition because without a tight labor supply their wages stagnate and go to existing capital which is stock piling cash endlessly.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:19 PM
 
31,679 posts, read 40,959,250 times
Reputation: 14424
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Works like all other stupid socialist approaches. Add to aggregate demand with enough supply of credit and encourage business to train their own workers.




Especially when there is no liquidity...that is to say the horse cannot drink the water when its a dry river bed. Debt deflation .....


The damage is even worse since good workers cannot accumulate capital to create market competition because without a tight labor supply their wages stagnate and go to existing capital which is stock piling cash endlessly.
Are you really this emotionally caught up in all of this or is more for intellectual exercise?
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:20 PM
 
31,679 posts, read 40,959,250 times
Reputation: 14424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawporri View Post
Dr Benjamin Carson who spoke at the Obama prayer breakfast and said Obamacare will hurt the poor, and
who came from the Cleveland ghettos and worked his butt off to become a hugely successful man was
asked the key influence to his accomplishments. He stated that his mother, who worked as a janitor,
always told him as a child "Never blame your station in life as the reason you can't achieve anything
you want."
He went on to say that we need to empower poor people to excel, rather than validate their poverty by
providing non-stop entitlement programs.
Ben Carson is a very wise man
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:52 PM
 
20,625 posts, read 19,284,184 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Are you really this emotionally caught up in all of this or is more for intellectual exercise?

Honestly I'd would say its more of a curiosity of people's reactions to it. I find it fascinating to dig up the political and economic philosophies of our founders only to see people scornfully hate it and fail to understand it while singing the poetry of the era . Its fascinating. They carry Adam smith , Jefferson on their shoulders, but hate all the ideas that they had. I like black humor.

I back it up with direct quotes and then watch their eyes glaze over. Americans what to be King George today.

Occasionally I get angry when some blue blood, Hapsburg lipped, sociopath lauds their brilliant aristocratic ways; this is true. One should be self aware.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:53 PM
 
31,679 posts, read 40,959,250 times
Reputation: 14424
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Honestly I'd would say its more of a curiosity of people's reactions to it. I find it fascinating to dig up the political and economic philosophies of our founders only to see people scornfully hate it and fail to understand it while singing the poetry of the era . Its fascinating. They carry Adam smith , Jefferson on their shoulders, but hate all the ideas that they had. I like black humor.

I back it up with direct quotes and then watch their eyes glaze over. Americans what to be King George today.

Occasionally I get angry when some blue blood, Hapsburg lipped, sociopath lauds their brilliant aristocratic ways; this is true. One should be self aware.
Gotcha
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