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Old 03-26-2013, 12:21 AM
 
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I'd throw in that the biggest disadvantage in being single is not having the safety net provided by a double income household. If you are laid off your entire income disappears and there's no spouse still bringing in an income to help tide things over till you find another job.

This disadvantage does also apply to two-parent/one income households but those are increasingly rarer these days.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,869 posts, read 16,313,683 times
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It's not just a tax penalty. How about the gift penalty??

While I do have some friends who chose not to marry, the majority of my peers, and also my siblings, all got married. With weddings. That means at least one shower gift and a wedding present. Some, after their divorces, get re-married and I am invited to get them a second gift. Then they start having babies. More gifts. My siblings have two children each. That's birthday and Christmas gifts for all those kids. And don't forget high school and college graduation gifts. My two oldest nieces both were married in lavish ceremonies. They're both now divorced and one has already had her second marriage. Between them they have three kids. That's more names for the twice-a-year gift list and plenty more to come from my other siblings' kids.

Then there's the fact that all my siblings moved away from the place where we were raised. And since they have children, we-e-e-e-l-l-l, certainly I can see it's more sensible for childless auntie to fly to them rather than them visiting me. Ca-ching.

While I am constantly begged to come to someone's important sporting event, someone's recital, someone's graduation, no one ever offers me a plane ticket. When I put a moratorium on this on the grounds that I couldn't afford it, one of my brothers had the nerve to say, "These are your nieces and nephews. You should be participating in their lives. Anyway, what else do you have to spend your money on?" My retort was, "I didn't ask you to move a thousand miles away from me," and he made it clear that wasn't an excuse.

I'm sure I have spent more than $100,000 on this through the course of my life. I don't want to be peevish, but I've never been the guest of honor at a shower, a wedding, a housewarming party, or anything. I get "from the family" Christmas gifts from my siblings. Not a gift from each of the people I donate to. I've set a rule that no one I knew as a child gets a birthday gift after they graduate college but that still leaves at least one birthday gift a month on my shopping list.

The IRS is not the only one penalizing me.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:10 AM
 
3,963 posts, read 5,693,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
You could do a good thing and adopt and still get the subsidy.
Penalize people into breeding. Do you know that by not reproducing that there is less competition? Children aren't the best things ever. Far from it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,164,480 times
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Jukesgrrl - your problem is not being single. It is that your brother or family is obnoxious. Whining about gifts is rather pathetic. You chose to be single - a status some will envy (without saying so). And not getting gifts is just part of the "life is not fair" status everyone should accept.

Marriage, just like almost everything in the world, has pluses and minuses. Single people can spend their money on themselves without any approval required from a spouse. Single people are in nearly total control of their life decisions. Married people general have some kind of joint decision making situation.

My brother in law, with no children or legal spouse, chooses to visit us and participate in our children's lives. Never have we asked for anything. My own brother, also unmarried, largely ignores us - as is his choice. I am just a bit disappointed, mostly because I want my kids to know my brother. But the last thing I will do is pressure my brother to do anything.

As for taxes, etc. I think the government (federal and local) should ignore marital status for taxation. Each spouse should do their own tax return and taxes should be determined without regard to marital status. Civil laws should be created to handle inheritance, wills, etc.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Obviously, every system that endeavors to apply a universal constant is going to have outliers who will fall through the cracks. Say you create a system to be as fair as possible for 100-million people and one percent, a million, are victims of being on the fringe. You can design relief for the exceptions, which will cover them, but ten thousand will be in that penumbra. Make a new exclusion for them, and a hundred will still suffer. In one way or another, every one of us will, in at least one characteristic, fall outside the scope of a social order that is intended to meet the needs of the majority. We all just learn to live with the diversity of unique individuality. 'Tain't fair, but it's the best we got.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Whittier, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses View Post
Men and women who never marry constitute about 5% of US society. Yet there are several instances in tax structure etc where single, never-married folk seem to be penalized.
Yes, but 50% of those who marry get divorced and mostly in the case of men they will lose most of their net worth in the breakup, so in that sense singles are not doing too badly Further, the cost of raising children is high enough that if the couple does not have equally matched income then the person with the stronger income would have been financially much better off single than married.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Whittier, CA
494 posts, read 1,916,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
I'd throw in that the biggest disadvantage in being single is not having the safety net provided by a double income household. If you are laid off your entire income disappears and there's no spouse still bringing in an income to help tide things over till you find another job.

This disadvantage does also apply to two-parent/one income households but those are increasingly rarer these days.
there is unemployment and your expenses as a single will be substantially lower (if you have been responsible enough to stay out of debt and live within your means) to tide you over with just the UI benefits.

In contrast, a married couple tends to invest more in a household, to raise children and such and because of this tends to have a much higher burn rate. It may not be possible to keep up with expenses on just one income. Many couples have to rely on two incomes these days, especially in high cost areas, to buy even an entry level house.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:16 PM
 
27 posts, read 114,934 times
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I guess it depends on how you look at it. There are obvious benefits and disadvantages. Such as, if you are the breadwinner and the spouse contributes nothing( in this case they become an absolute bum) then you got a bum deal from being married. That is just a very simple argument.

There are a lot of different factors that come into play when getting married. You could end up better off and just as easily end up in worse off.

In the scenario I provided someone may be fine with the spouse doing nothing if they thought they were married to the most attractive person in the world and received all the attention they needed.

For some people it maybe worth it to have that trophy spouse. Also that emotional support may motivate that person to become more successful.

I guess you can call staying single "playing it safe."
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,700 posts, read 17,039,578 times
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I have been single most of my adult life and have always had to pay full taxes with only the standard deduction.

Yes, I had the freedom to make my own decisions, didn't have to take care of anyone else except my pets, etc., etc.

I also had no one there to help me when needed......no one to help me move a piece of furniture, no one to pick me up if my car broke down, no one to take me to the hospital and sit by my side, no one to help me make a difficult decision.

People like to point out that because they had children, they should get a break.

But, when do I get my break?

Those who got all of the tax breaks for having children, also reap the benefits of having those children.....I do not......even though I paid more in taxes so they could pay less.

When they get old and need help.....they can call upon their children......to drive them to the doctor, take them to the store, help them move......who do I call?

Yep, I call their children......and I have to pay them a pretty penny for everything they do for me.

Need a ride to the store? $$$ Need help moving? $$$ Need someone to mow the yard because I hurt my ankle? $$$ Need someone to shovel the driveway when I have the flu? $$$

I know some married couples, who when one of them dies.....the other is nearly helpless.....because their spouse always took care of the money, the car, the yard......I, on the other hand, know how to do all of these things.

My point?

There are down sides and perks in all of our choices.....remaining single, remaining childless, having children.....regardless.....I think we should all pay a flat tax without deductions because of the lifestyle we choose.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:45 PM
 
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Married people pay the marriage tax penalty and sometimes don't get as much in Social Security. And many pay divorce costs as well. But it is necessary to examine the non financial benefits of marriage, which can be substantial. Marriage has become a status symbol. Notice how many freshly divorced people rush out and get married again?
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