$632,000 Average White Wealth in US? (loan, 401k plan, work, paying)
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No, it removes the extremes. Extremes are quite a different thing from outliers. If you want to cover up the implications of the extremes, consider only the person (or whatever) in the middle by looking only at the median. It doesn't confirm anything about the extremes at all. Of course, in this case median white wealth exceeds median black wealth by a factor of 7.89, so that trick won't do evaders any good here.
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Originally Posted by Malloric
The problem is people are ignorant about what statistics mean.
They don't let that stop them either. You're doing a much better job than the other poster though.
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Originally Posted by Malloric
...for both whites and blacks, wealth is extremely right-skewed. That's something everyone already knows, but it's nice to see it objectively quantified. The interesting piece, to me, is that blacks are even more right-skewed than whites are.
It is interesting to note as well that the degree of skew has been increasing over time -- for blacks, white, and everybody else. This is due to many years of deliberate policies to redistribute income and wealth upward along the income scale. The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and that's just the way that some people want it. God's in His Heaven, and all's right with the world if you are one of those folks.
I see. The problem with a report finding that whites on average have a lot more wealth than blacks on average is that it included too many wealthy white folks? Brilliant.
Yes of course that's the problem. Why include all whites as a bloc without qualification when 20% control 85% of the wealth?
It seems that the point of sorting the data by race is to imply that being white causes some sort of benefit and by consequence is an attack on whites. I'm not trying to deny that severe wealth inequality exists and that it is more acute for blacks when compared to whites. I never denied average wealth was $632,000 - just that we shouldn't be overvaluing the meaningfulness of the average.
It is not a simple matter of "race" that determines a person's income or wealth-building potential. It would be much more instructive to examine other components of the characteristics of families and their respective wealth - yet this article and report are presented as just an opportunity to blame the racist bogeyman...despite wealth being highly skewed even among whites. Even if being white correlates with having higher wealth, which I never denied, it in no way causes wealth- but that is exactly the conclusion that this research group (or perhaps more accurately, the way the study is being reported) is trying to promote, and misses the larger point of wealth disparity.
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Originally Posted by oaktonite
There is nothing to take personally here. Though some obviously must, nobody says YOU or any other particular individual has either more or less wealth than the average white person. The study simply compares average wealth by race. This approach is apparently too advanced for some people to keep up with.
I think you are the one who is taking things personally here; at least you're the one with the disparaging attitude. I'm simply saying the average does not convey much useful information because it is so skewed by a relatively small number of people, and that race is not necessarily a determinate factor. Yet it is presented as the starting point for a meaningful discussion about wealth and race, which I guess is OK as long as the discussion is not about implying "discrimination by whites" and doesn't ignore that there is much wealth disparity among whites as well, which is what the journalist who wrote the article about this study is doing.
The Urban Institute released a study to show the disparity between the wealth of whites versus minorities (Hispanic and black---don't think they included Asians).
"By the most recent data, the average white family had about $632,000 in wealth, versus $98,000 for black families and $110,000 for Hispanic families."
Wealth is defined as assets like savings, retirement accounts, and house minus liabilities of mortgage and credit card debt.
I find it very surprising that wealth would be this high since no one I know has anywhere close to this. But since it's averaged, is it just that the wealthiest people skew it so high? Is it really possible for such a small percentage to skew it so high? I guess it must be, because the median wealth tells a far different story: $77,300, where half have more than this and half less.
I can see it being about that high because include a paid off home, maybe a second home or real estate investment they made along the line, everything in the home -- appliances, furniture, 401K plands, stocks and bonds they invested in that have grown. Plus jewelry and bank accounts.
I don't know why other groups don't invest. Interesting how the hispanics have only just arrived here and are doing better than black Americans.
I just wonder how these figures (assets-liabilites=wealth) were obtained. Did people actually fill out some sort of financial statement for this study? Seems kind of unlikely...
The "real statistic" is that at average age of 41, the median wealth is under $100K despite the fact that that number only represents 2 to 3 years of income, after 20 or more years of work.
They never abolished slavery, they only perfected it and made it all inclusive.
The "real statistic" is that at average age of 41, the median wealth is under $100K despite the fact that that number only represents 2 to 3 years of income, after 20 or more years of work.
They never abolished slavery, they only perfected it and made it all inclusive.
But at age 41, many people still have kids or are just starting to have them, and still only half way through a mortgage, but once the kids are gone, and mortgage paid off, they accumulate more wealth quickly.
I just wonder how these figures (assets-liabilites=wealth) were obtained. Did people actually fill out some sort of financial statement for this study? Seems kind of unlikely...
Where did this data come from?
Primary sources for detailed data on the income and wealth of Americans would include the IRS, Fed, and Census. The data used in the Urban Institute study were from the Fed.
Yes of course that's the problem. Why include all whites as a bloc without qualification when 20% control 85% of the wealth?
Maybe we shouldn't have counted all those "old white guy" votes for Romney either.
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Originally Posted by Clint.
I never denied average wealth was $632,000 - just that we shouldn't be overvaluing the meaningfulness of the average.
Various people here have tried to claim that the average has no "meaningfulness" at all, which is bunk.
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Originally Posted by Clint.
It is not a simple matter of "race" that determines a person's income or wealth-building potential.
The report of a signficant wealth gap by race does not suggest that race determines income or wealth. You either don't properly understand the study or thrive on producing strawmen.
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Originally Posted by Clint.
I think you are the one who is taking things personally here; at least you're the one with the disparaging attitude.
The bruised-feelings defense? Responses are not warranted for content-neutrality. If the content of a particular post is nonsense, it may indeed be criticized, corrected, or even disparaged. This does not reflect on a particular poster. Merely on the nonsense posted.
I find it very surprising that wealth would be this high since no one I know has anywhere close to this. But since it's averaged, is it just that the wealthiest people skew it so high? Is it really possible for such a small percentage to skew it so high?
This is EXACTLY the problem. We have a ridiculous amount of wealth at the very top, and our level of income inequality as a nation is truly pathetic compared to other nations in the world. But the gigantic Big Government that liberals are so in love with has done nothing but help this consolidation of wealth. Our regressive income tax system does a great job equalizing wealth among workers and even non-workers, but it gives a free pass to the truly wealthy because they are not relying heavily on wage income.
Big Government is firmly in the hands of the ultra-rich, who pay for politician's campaigns and their post-politics life of wealth and ease. The voters are nothing more than a group of easily manipulated patsies, who bear the entire cost of our gigantic Big Government among themselves. The working class's resentment over ever-declining prosperity is carefully aimed at the "other" political party, while very few voters ever notice that NEITHER party does anything to help the voters that elected them.
Voters who don't want their huge tax burden raised even more are forced to vote for a Republican Party that insists on huge Big Government with ever-increasing Defense Spending, and low taxes for anyone making over $1 million.
But at age 41, many people still have kids or are just starting to have them, and still only half way through a mortgage, but once the kids are gone, and mortgage paid off, they accumulate more wealth quickly.
You do not feel that 20+ years of hard labor are enough to pay for your subsistance and a roof over your head?
The average worker during that time, who has averaged just $30K a year has made 1.8 million for his employer and paid $130-$140,000 in interest to banks. During that same time period he has accumulated little or no wealth for himself.
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