You Know You're From a Working Class Backround If ... (millionaire, buy, money)

[karen_in_nh_2012]

Originally Posted by paiste13

I moved from a upper-middle class neighborhood to a poorer rural community for my job and noticed that many problems are someone else's fault. Growing up in my nicer neighborhood, when a kid failed a class, was overweight, did poorly at sports, etc, the parents taught him how to improve for next time. Down here in the same situation the blame is on the teacher, the doctor, the other team, etc. This isn't something a few people have shown me - it's a nearly universal aspect of this town.

Hmmm. Anecdotally, from what I've heard from teachers, UPPER-MIDDLE-CLASS and MIDDLE-CLASS parents are much more likely to blame the teacher if their angel, say, fails a class. Many working-class parents might be a bit intimidated by teachers since they have a lot more education. Again, this is simply anecdotal; I would bet there is social science research on it, but I haven't looked specifically.

Originally Posted by paiste13

I don't have quantifiable data, but in my experience, upper-middle class people tend to have a more positive attitude about life in general.

Well, yes, they don't have the same kinds of struggles that working-class people do.

Originally Posted by paiste13

For the record my dad never had a college degree but managed a division in a medium-sized company, my mom was a part-time nurse, and education and lifelong learning was pressed hard upon my sister and I.

Those things are not typical of the working class, at least not the way it is usually defined by social scientists (although there is no ONE definition).

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

I actually agree with all of your post.... The last sentence is what I often think about - how to best raise kids who are in an upper class system that props them up with the best educational/support systems, while also instilling the hardwork ethic, accountability, drive to succeed, and fire that is often developed in a working class/middle class environment, like where I grew up.

Very nicely put.

To the OP: I grew up in a working-class home (mom was a waitress/food service worker most of her working life; dad was in the enlisted ranks of the Air Force) and was the first person in my family to go to college. I was very lucky in that I do extremely well on standardized tests, so from early elementary school I was "singled out" as being really smart, and that label followed me throughout junior high and high school. My parents did not financially contribute at all to my undergrad education; it was simply not part of their mentality (I understood that, but it made things really, really hard). I then went on to grad school at Berkeley (master's) and Michigan (Ph.D.).

I felt the difference in my background most when I was at Michigan. Virtually all of my fellow grad-school students were from middle- and upper-class backgrounds; most had parents who were professionals (lot of doctors, lawyers, professors). Michigan grad programs are generally very hard to get into, so most grad students had also gone to elite undergrad institutions (I hadn't -- since I had to pay for 100% of it myself, I could not afford much).

I absolutely loved grad school for the intellectual environment, but it was an odd experience as well. I would be in classes using words like "hegemony" and "epistemology" and "deconstruction" and all those other academic-only words, then I would call my sister and find out her husband (an electrician) had just been laid off again. I would be reminded of the rarefied air I was breathing in Ann Arbor -- it simply was not the "real world," at least not the kind I had grown up in. (There's a wonderful book called This Fine Place So Far From Home that's about academics from working-class backgrounds. I read it years ago and had to keep putting it down because it hit too close to home.)

And just a side note. There's another thread going on now in which the OP basically says poor and working-class people are mostly stupid so public education will never work. (The argument: poor and working-class people are poor and working-class because they are stupid, and when they have kids, they pass on their stupid genes to their kids. ) Needless to say I found those arguments repugnant on both a personal and professional level (I am now a college prof).

I have enjoyed reading other people's stories. OP, thanks for starting this thread!

[warren zee]

Originally Posted by laorbust61

If:

During your childhood experience, heavy emphasis was placed on the following as regards parental expectations of your behavior and attitudes:

1. Personal Neatness and Cleanliness:

At home and wherever else you happened to find yourself. "Being poor is no excuse to be ugly, nasty and lazy" Soap and water is just about free" is the way it was put to me as a child.

2. Pride:

Be proud of where you come from. Be proud of your family name. Don't do anything to bring disgrace or shame to your reputation or family's reputation.

Also, Pull your own weight. Earn your keep. Be independent. Don't be lazy, be a good worker. Contribute. Don't beg for anything and if you do have to accept help, accept as small amount as you can for as short a time as you can.

Dealing With Other People:

1. Don't lie
2. Be a lady and demand a lady's respect
3. Do what you say you are going to do.
4. Pay your bills.
5. Don't talk behind a person's back; say it to their face


College:

"We can't afford college. Get yourself a trade and some work skills"

General Points:

"If you don't know how to close or fix it, you better not open it or break it!" (I mean ANYTHING)
"Make do with what you have"
"Put some money aside for a rainy day"
"Smoking, drinking and gambling are bad habits and a waste of money"
"Waste not, want not"

This is pretty much what came immediately to mind.

Or, in relation to college - you can go to college if you are going to be a teacher, nurse or a criminal justice major ( work in law enforcement or corrections) and the college is -

1. a community college
2. a religious college affiliated with your religion.
3. a commuter school.
4. a close by state university.

[andywire]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

3) The domestic beer and food being "cheap and plentiful" is insulting. You're conjuring up images of some poor trash devouring the pizzas, McDonald's, Cokes, and Natural Light, absolutely loving it and being too stupid to realize better alternatives . There are people in the working class like this, but it's a nasty, ugly stereotype, and shouldn't be applied with such a broad brush. There are probably far more people in the working class that would prefer to eat healthier should their budgets allow it than people like the former.

I find this silly. For what it costs to buy crappy fast food and heavily processed foods, you could very easily afford to eat foods that constitute a balanced diet. One huge benefit the working class poor has in this country is that of subsidized agricultural product. Carrots, celery, broccoli and many other veggies are about 65 cents a lb around here. Chicken drumsticks run about 79 cents a lb while breasts run about 89 cents a lb. I could go on, but my diet is quite healthy, yet I spend about $30 a week for myself. No top ramen required. You just have to get off the processed crap and actually cook your own meals.

And you could brew your own beer that rivals many of the popular imports. I can brew a top quality beer for the price of the crappy pee water beer the poor are thought to favor.

Of course, all of this requires personal effort, a bit of work ethic and some form of reasoning. Maybe many poor people are poor for a reason...

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by St. Josef the Chewable

Make that "Working Class Background"

5) An irrational fear that you'll be judged by strangers for your poor grammar and spelling.

It is possible to correct a typo in the thread title, but most people don't know how, because it is not as intuitive as corrections in the content field. Also, typos in thread titles disappear in the limited text entry field, so posters often post new threads without ready access to the title to proofread it. That's why so many thread titles have typos in them. It is a huge and serious defect in standard program that is commonly used for online discussion groups like this, and people who dwell upon the typos that appear in titles or ridicule the composer are not making any useful contribution to anything. It is not City-data's fault, many discussion forums use the same defective standard matrix.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by St. Josef the Chewable

3) "Don't think you're better than other people." Mistrust of "pretense," "elitism,"

You see this as a character flaw? Sounds like a solid, feet-on-the-ground (and nose not in the air) upbringing to me.

[jasper12]

I find the concept of a Mother being at home quite intriguing, as I come from a family where generations of women worked outside the home. My Great Grandmother was a telephone operator, my Grandmother was a legal secretary, my Mother was a tax accountant, and I have always worked outside the home.

Women work in my family...to make a mortgage payment. Four generations of divorced, single Mothers....

[Sally_Sparrow]

Originally Posted by jasper12

I find the concept of a Mother being at home quite intriguing, as I come from a family where generations of women worked outside the home. My Great Grandmother was a telephone operator, my Grandmother was a legal secretary, my Mother was a tax accountant, and I have always worked outside the home.

Women work in my family...to make a mortgage payment. Four generations of divorced, single Mothers....

Just had to respond.. my Grandmother was both a telephone operator and then later on, a legal secretary. My mother was a secretary and later on an HVAC tech. She was also a SAHM mom too, for a period of time before she and my father divorced. My Grandmother was also a divorced, single mom and her mother was as well!

[michgc]

Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012

Hmmm. Anecdotally, from what I've heard from teachers, UPPER-MIDDLE-CLASS and MIDDLE-CLASS parents are much more likely to blame the teacher if their angel, say, fails a class. Many working-class parents might be a bit intimidated by teachers since they have a lot more education. Again, this is simply anecdotal; I would bet there is social science research on it, but I haven't looked specifically.

I agree with this. My parents were both from working-class backgrounds. But my dad learned a good trade that allowed us to live in an upper-middle class neighborhood. My parents were among few (especially the dads) who didn't go to college. My parents never questioned teachers. If a teacher said something was wrong, then it was wrong. I remember once trying to get into an advanced English class. Both my friend and I did not get in. Somehow, her parents called the school and got her into the program. My mother's response? If the teacher doesn't feel you're qualified to be in that class, then you are not qualified.

To this day (my mom is 75), when my mom talks about teachers she always talks about them as if they are very smart and educated. (I'm not saying they're not, but most upper-middle class parents are more educated and make more money than teachers, so I don't necessarily think they look up to them.) If my mom meets someone and the other person says that she was a teacher before she retired, my mom will comment to me about her, "Oh, she must be smart, she was a teacher."

So, more anecdotal information for your theory.

[Escort Rider]

This is probably the most consistently interesting, insightful, and perceptive thread that I have encountered in my three years on City-Data. I agree that class in America is complex, is subject to a lot of denial, and is certainly as much or more about attitudes as about money.

I don't have much to add, but here's a little personal story. My sister and I are college educated, but my income has always been somewhat on the lower side of middle class because I elected to become a high school teacher. Since childhood I have been comfortable around a wide variety of people, both intellectually and financially.

A female cousin and her husband are people whom I've always liked and gotten along well with. They are not college educated, are very down-to-earth - friendly and kind and generous with their time in helping others. But after knowing them and spending time with them for many, many years, something happened which shocked me and caused me to think about the class differences between us.

We had invited my cousin's husband to be a pallbearer at our mother's funeral. He showed up in blue jeans - clean, relatively new ones, but still blue jeans. In my eyes he was still welcome - on a moral level I consider him a better person than I am. But it did cause me to think. That pair of blue jeans was probably the nicest pair of pants he owned - and not because he couldn't afford better, as his income was probably not very much different from my own. It was a question of attitudes and priorities and also of the fact that he just almost never needed anything else. In his own family of origin I imagine that even for funerals they didn't dress up that much.

I continue to have excellent relations with that family, and the matter of the blue jeans at a funeral is really rather trivial. But I thought it fit into the ongoing discussion of this thread. The fact that I was shocked is telling, in my opinion.

[St. Josef the Chewable]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

You see this as a character flaw? Sounds like a solid, feet-on-the-ground (and nose not in the air) upbringing to me.

Oh, I wasn't implying that these were all "character flaws," or even that they apply exclusively to working-class people. Sorry if my presentation seemed a bit muddled.