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Old 05-05-2013, 01:43 PM
 
2,365 posts, read 3,086,784 times
Reputation: 4615

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I know this has been done recently, by Ghostly1, I think, on the Retirement board. But it didn't reference this link and it didn't make the connection between the economic turndown and suicide.

What I found even more interesting than the article were the comments at the end of the article -- about 940 comments. They are worth reading -- every single one -- only because I know this recession has been touching everyone, to a greater or lesser extent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/he...ply-in-us.html

Does anyone want to talk about this? Does anyone know someone who is middle-aged and jobless and struggling? What can we do to help at least our relatives and close friends who are desperate?
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod
15,968 posts, read 10,522,238 times
Reputation: 25848
Sometimes it is very hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel. There is a lot of desperation, depression and anger out there. When people see no way out suicide is sadly an option. I would think the age should be lower than 35 give nall the kids that are graduating from college with no prospects and saddled with debt in students loans. Many move back in with parents and some turn to drugs.
These recessions are cyclical and things will get better. It is just a matter of time and if the individual can hold on.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,309 posts, read 3,860,204 times
Reputation: 5326
Hi Fran,

This has been the single most destructive thing I have ever witnessed in all of my 47 years on this planet.
I'm counting natural disasters and man made disasters as well.

I personally have been very blessed and very lucky to have weathered this depression with job and income intact.
I know many including family members that have not been so fortunate.

Many people that have had a job and security during this time are extremely out of touch with the pain, depression, hopelessness and despair that those that have struggled and are struggling continue to deal with day in day out.

I hear in my office comments like "" these bums need to get off their ass and take any job "" and "" I'm tired of my tax dollars going to those that lost their jobs and won't work. ""

For the most part people would take a job, any job to get by but when you have the stigma of being long term unemployment weighing you down like a ship anchor it isn't as simple as "" just take any job. ""

Many companies blatantly state in job descriptions that no unemployed applicants will be accepted for consideration.

Is it any wonder why many people who have lost their homes, cars and sometimes family due to unemployment consider suicide a valid option?

I pray for them everyday.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:06 PM
 
2,365 posts, read 3,086,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Sometimes it is very hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel. There is a lot of desperation, depression and anger out there. When people see no way out suicide is sadly an option. I would think the age should be lower than 35 give nall the kids that are graduating from college with no prospects and saddled with debt in students loans. Many move back in with parents and some turn to drugs.
These recessions are cyclical and things will get better. It is just a matter of time and if the individual can hold on.
I'm not sure things are ever going to get better. The middle class is being murdered. Financial inequality is the worse it's ever been in The US. Our tax system favors Big Business and the rich. 1/6 of us does not have medical insurance, and I have a friend who has been in medical insurance forever, and he says that Obamacare is going to be terrible -- we just don't know it yet. (Of course, he IS in medical insurance and is biased, I'm sure.) Our infrastructure is not in good shape. Our education is a disaster -- community college is becoming remedial high school. And I'm not thrilled with the education level of our collage graduates. (Have you talked one of them lately? And do you know that it's estimated that 60% of them cheat on exams?) And if that weren't bad enough -- we've lost our privacy, our rights and our freedoms. Mostly since 9/11.

How is this ever going to get better?
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:10 PM
 
2,365 posts, read 3,086,784 times
Reputation: 4615
Quote:
Originally Posted by julian17033 View Post
Hi Fran,

This has been the single most destructive thing I have ever witnessed in all of my 47 years on this planet.
I'm counting natural disasters and man made disasters as well.

I personally have been very blessed and very lucky to have weathered this depression with job and income intact.
I know many including family members that have not been so fortunate.

Many people that have had a job and security during this time are extremely out of touch with the pain, depression, hopelessness and despair that those that have struggled and are struggling continue to deal with day in day out.

I hear in my office comments like "" these bums need to get off their ass and take any job "" and "" I'm tired of my tax dollars going to those that lost their jobs and won't work. ""

For the most part people would take a job, any job to get by but when you have the stigma of being long term unemployment weighing you down like a ship anchor it isn't as simple as "" just take any job. ""

Many companies blatantly state in job descriptions that no unemployed applicants will be accepted for consideration.

Is it any wonder why many people who have lost their homes, cars and sometimes family due to unemployment consider suicide a valid option?

I pray for them everyday.
Julian, I don't know who you are but you sound like an extremely kind person. And I'm not surprised. I was thinking of moving to Pittsburgh and so I was on the CD Pittsburgh board for about 6 months (or more). I couldn't have asked for kinder, more helpful posters. I've never found the same level any city board I've been on.

Well, don't read the comments at the bottom of the article. They will break your heart. But I've never been so impressed by any comments re any article. These posters were letting it all hang out. It just killed me.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 6,393,887 times
Reputation: 2996
Frankly, when unemployment runs out and you have no other source of income (say, wife isnt working), how DO you survive?

I'm pretty sure I'd end up homeless...that is the worst case scenario for me. Would that be a reason to committ suicide. Dunno...i can say "no" but havn't been there. But I am mentally expecting that is where i'd end up if I hit rock bottom...in a homeless shelter and eating at soup kitchens. Perhaps mentally preparing oneself for the worst case makes the pyschological fallout of downward mobility more...endurable?
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:34 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 6,393,887 times
Reputation: 2996
Quote:
I'm not sure things are ever going to get better. The middle class is being murdered.
It wont get better. Nearly finished reading a book on this, where the author (Hedrick Smith) itemized the various ways the Middle Class is getting hammered (there's also a political part to the book, which Im not interested in and will skip)...its a good book because it collects all the bad things that are happening or have happened and puts them in one book so you can get the big picture.

So, based on what he writes, I dont see much help. I've already downshifted my lifestyle to be able to accept/weather a big cut in take-home income. So I am already "downwardly mobile" in preperation for a bleak future, in terms of income.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:16 AM
 
2,365 posts, read 3,086,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
It wont get better. Nearly finished reading a book on this, where the author (Hedrick Smith) itemized the various ways the Middle Class is getting hammered (there's also a political part to the book, which Im not interested in and will skip)...its a good book because it collects all the bad things that are happening or have happened and puts them in one book so you can get the big picture.

So, based on what he writes, I dont see much help. I've already downshifted my lifestyle to be able to accept/weather a big cut in take-home income. So I am already "downwardly mobile" in preperation for a bleak future, in terms of income.
Dayton, I am sad as I read your post. Yes, it's a smart thing to do -- downsize in preparation. After all, that's certainly never going to hurt. And I hope and pray that you have family who loves you and will care for you should the worst happen.

Yes, I know Hedrick Smith -- are you speaking of Who Stole The American Dream? I've been meaning to get that. I also like Chris Hedges very much. Right now I'm rereading Morris Berman's The Twilight of American Culture. It was published in 2000, but I reread it (or sections of it) to remind me that I wasn't crazy when I saw this coming in 1999 or earlier.

I'm retired and have a nice fat government pension -- but I'm still relatively young as far as retirees go -- I'm 64 -- and I have NO belief that it will carry me through for another 20 years (my estimated life span). I live a very frugal lifestyle and save money -- but that's not going to do any good if the dollar isn't worth anything. When I can't take care of myself anymore -- I have a plan in place.

I am absolutely certain that most people have no idea what we are heading for.

I wish you well. Truly.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
4,444 posts, read 4,953,196 times
Reputation: 3367
This is very sad, indeed. This is the main reason why I've become an "economic atheist," as the "laws" of economics that are applied today certainly don't work like they used to.

I'm beginning to think that going communist is the only way out of this mess. Sure, we'd have a stagnant economy with a relatively low standard of living (perhaps 1970's levels), BUT at least everyone would have a job, everyone would have a roof over their head, and most importantly, everyone would have dignity and a sense of belonging. Really, nothing else matters. Is it such a big deal that the rich people go away for good for us to have these things, that we ALL have the right to have?

I know I'll get flamed badly for this, but hey, when people are dying, I really don't care.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 6,393,887 times
Reputation: 2996
Quote:
Yes, I know Hedrick Smith -- are you speaking of Who Stole The American Dream?
yes, that is the book. It has a good discussion about the pitfalls of the retirement system...or lack of one....which might play into an oncoming wave of geriatric destitution (in other words: you aint seen nothing yet).

You mention Chris Hedges. Maybe. The book I find is a good companion to Smiths is Someplace Like America by Dale Maharidge and Michael S. Williamson, as it is a tour of "the bottom", so to speak. Where downward mobility leads (in a worst case scenario).

@@@

The suicide situation, based on the remarks in the NYT article, seems to be more than just economics? Perhaps there is an issue of social isolation, too? Which would be a geriatic mental health issue anyway, perhaps?
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