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Old 11-27-2007, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,873 posts, read 5,837,665 times
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The US should be stepping up an energy independence plan now! The dollar is already getting destroyed on the world market and now some of the oil-producing nations are looking to consider changing the way we pay for oil by having the US pay for oil in other currencies such as the Euro or even making an oil-based type of exchange system.

Nuclear, bio-fuels, solar, fuel cells, tidal generation, wind, hydro, etc., should be developed. Government could provide a role by helping fund research and development through targeted program development at universities and research facilities.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:49 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,730 posts, read 14,968,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
The US should be stepping up an energy independence plan now! The dollar is already getting destroyed on the world market and now some of the oil-producing nations are looking to consider changing the way we pay for oil by having the US pay for oil in other currencies such as the Euro or even making an oil-based type of exchange system.

Nuclear, bio-fuels, solar, fuel cells, tidal generation, wind, hydro, etc., should be developed. Government could provide a role by helping fund research and development through targeted program development at universities and research facilities.
Its not just Oil. The Arab countries are taking over our Banks , one cash infusion at a time........ Soon it won't matter what currency is used , just , that the US remains the worlds largest importer of stuff........China is not far behind. I believe its already to late for the greenback.The Euro will be the new world standard. The US debt is whats draging down the dollar. The fed will fuel this even more , in hopes of warding off a recession. Too late, hyperinflation is just around the corner. By Gold , NOW , all you can afford !.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:54 AM
 
5,700 posts, read 10,684,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
The US should be stepping up an energy independence plan now! The dollar is already getting destroyed on the world market and now some of the oil-producing nations are looking to consider changing the way we pay for oil by having the US pay for oil in other currencies such as the Euro or even making an oil-based type of exchange system.

Nuclear, bio-fuels, solar, fuel cells, tidal generation, wind, hydro, etc., should be developed. Government could provide a role by helping fund research and development through targeted program development at universities and research facilities.
Sure, that is a little bit MOTO. (Master Of The Obvious).

But if you look at the top end running the show -- it aint happening.

Means for us peons, this is a "Domer" experience -- Domer is a new name for the folks at the Dome in New Orleans -- yunno, stuck after Hurrincane Katrina.

Now here is the application test -- it is Day 2, and we are sitting at the Dome. While everybody may agree that the gubermint "should this or that," it is very obvious that help is not on the way.

So how long do you / we sit before figuring out it is time to walk, wade or swim?

Same principle. If there is any help in this -- it is only us. But like mentioned before, giving up hope on others above and taking charge of your own future is a very liberating and empowering experience.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:59 AM
 
69,364 posts, read 60,143,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
No more. Over 90.00 a barrel; the last time oil was this high was in 1980.

I am looking towards living in a city again, and no longer will be buying gas, ever.
I guess you'll be walking everywhere and not taking a bus, or taxi..
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:02 AM
 
69,364 posts, read 60,143,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recycled View Post
I ride my bicycle to work and back (approximately 25 miles each way) year round. I ride the bike or walk to most errands around my town. I have a car but often it only gets used a little bit on weekends. Here in southern california, the temperatures are mild enough so that I use almost no AC during the summer and very little heat in winter (I live in a second story apartment and I think the apartment below me leaves their heat on quite a bit in winter, so my place stays comfy too). All my lights are low energy florescent, my electric bill averages $20 per month and natural gas averages $10 per month. That's pretty "carbon lite".
I have you beat.. I work in my livingroom... But your utilities trump mine.. My electric bill nears $200 per month because of the 12 pc's I have...
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 25,253,901 times
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The Euro, Dollar, Yuan and such are a Fiat money backed by nothing. I have no faith in any currency as the "powers that be" simply manipulate the money supplies to benefit themselves. None of us have any control over it. Commodities are what we need and use, and therefore are a better inflation hedge. A stockpile of silver or copper or even steel follows inflation closely. The biggest obstacle to energy independance is big Government. They are there at every turn to hinder your business. On a personal level you may be able to take control, but until oil actually runs out Government will not allow anyone to make a meaningful change. Why? Because the legislators are mostly in the hands of the big investors. Oil companies get a lot of blame, but in my opinion they are just getting paid to move the product. There are alternatives that work, even gadgets to increase gas mileage. If oil consumption could be reduced by 50% we would all benefit.
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:54 AM
 
5,700 posts, read 10,684,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post

. . . .

The biggest obstacle to energy independance is big Government. They are there at every turn to hinder your business. On a personal level you may be able to take control, but until oil actually runs out Government will not allow anyone to make a meaningful change.

. . . . .
I follow the Feds are not really about curing the problem, but how do you see that they hinder anyone from going off oil?

I do agree that overall the "Big Government," has decided to stick with oil. For their own sake and that corporations that own them. Oil runs their toys -- planes, warplanes, tanks and limos -- and if one steps back a little you can even see the decision points. Back in 2001 they made a choice -- go RE or try to pull off a home invasion robbery of Iraq. That was what the Cheney Energy Task Force was all about, and why both the Corporate ends of both the D's and R's support it. They did the math and going off oil is work. They thought stealing would be easier. They are basically lazy in their hearts.

But how do you see now that the Feds hinder any of us from choosing to go off of oil? You can make an electric car. If you are a business type, you can build and sell electric cars. You can grow a garden. If you are a business type, a large, large organic garden. You can build a house that runs on RE (renewable energy). If you a business type build and sell them. on and on.

I follow that some RE folks stay perma-pissed that there are not more incentives, but that is a domer thing. Help is not the way, because the choice to steal oil rather than build better options was made on paper, steel, and now blood.

No big deal, don't be a part of their train wreck, route around, and drive on.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,873 posts, read 5,837,665 times
Reputation: 4505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Sure, that is a little bit MOTO. (Master Of The Obvious).

But if you look at the top end running the show -- it aint happening.

Not looking for the top to run the show, however, our elected officials could be looking to provide some leadership in helping to promote a national spirit similar to the one used in the 60s to get us to the moon. During that time there was a concentrated effort with universities and leading corporations to develop programs and talent necessary to meet the goal.

Our corporate leaders have the money, influence, and distribution system to make it happen. The problem is nobody is going to step until there is enough discomfort with the current offerings. Corporations are in business to make money and laying out large amounts of cash in R&D for alternative energy production doesn't fly when your competition is showing better results with the cheaper, currently available form.

Things may change soon if other world players decide to further devalue the dollar but it would take $6 a gallon gas and heating oil here before people really start screaming.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 25,253,901 times
Reputation: 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
I follow the Feds are not really about curing the problem, but how do you see that they hinder anyone from going off oil?

I do agree that overall the "Big Government," has decided to stick with oil. For their own sake and that corporations that own them. Oil runs their toys -- planes, warplanes, tanks and limos -- and if one steps back a little you can even see the decision points. Back in 2001 they made a choice -- go RE or try to pull off a home invasion robbery of Iraq. That was what the Cheney Energy Task Force was all about, and why both the Corporate ends of both the D's and R's support it. They did the math and going off oil is work. They thought stealing would be easier. They are basically lazy in their hearts.

But how do you see now that the Feds hinder any of us from choosing to go off of oil? You can make an electric car. If you are a business type, you can build and sell electric cars. You can grow a garden. If you are a business type, a large, large organic garden. You can build a house that runs on RE (renewable energy). If you a business type build and sell them. on and on.

I follow that some RE folks stay perma-pissed that there are not more incentives, but that is a domer thing. Help is not the way, because the choice to steal oil rather than build better options was made on paper, steel, and now blood.

No big deal, don't be a part of their train wreck, route around, and drive on.
I have been helping my parents battle the local zoning department (Team Metro) to try and get a permit for solar PV panels. The Government also made it difficult for dad's BioDiesel experiment. I can imagine the hassles that I would get if I start to run my own car on wood again. I agree that Government should be there to help level the playing field, but as of now all they see to do is destroy it.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,873 posts, read 5,837,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
I have been helping my parents battle the local zoning department (Team Metro) to try and get a permit for solar PV panels. The Government also made it difficult for dad's BioDiesel experiment. I can imagine the hassles that I would get if I start to run my own car on wood again. I agree that Government should be there to help level the playing field, but as of now all they see to do is destroy it.
Agreed. It's hard to break the status quo when it benefits a lot of people in the business of "serving" the people.

In the last election in my hometown many complained that they were tired of the people in office who had done nothing but fought with each other and argued over whose fault it was. What happened? They voted the same people in.

The people were in an uproar over a poorly-developed new school plan but the ones they were most upset with got the most votes.

Having participated in the process for the first time myself and witnessed first-hand how difficult it is to get reach the masses in terms of recognition, money, and support I can relate to how hard it is to affect change from the outside.

Unfortunately once those elected get on the inside, few risk being sent back to the outside by arguing for any real change.
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