death tax back to 1 million exemption. (capitalism, judgment, accountant, sell)

[Amelorn]

Originally Posted by oaktonite

And the theft-whiners have none at all. They cling defensively to their impossible dreams of one-day wealth and a desire to shelter every nonexistent penny of it from taxation.

I've always found this a peculiar thought process in the average American. Most would happily see the rich barbecued and chopped in the Cantonese style, but at the same time support tax shelters for the elite just in case they make it big.

Taxation itself is primitive. The first ever government imposed taxes. The first ever proto-governmert would have thought of it soon enough.

I think it can be as primitive or sophisticated as it needs to be. Taxation though isn't an evil in my mind, but a necessity. I'd examined enough case studies of "small" (read: defunded) government to know what that brings. My grandfather on the other hand reminds me of some posters here, with a pathological hatred of taxes. I remember him bitching about a preferred stock buyback which left him with tens of thousands in unexpected profit. His response to a near $100,000 windfall? ***** about the extra taxes.

Prevent or discourage?

Strictly speaking of the witnessed effects, it's a minor discouragement that can be (to some extent) mitigated by legal means. I have much more faith in the effects of profligacy and fecundity in squandering or diluting dynastic fortune, but even these can be countered.

And why would you want to ADD to them?

I have no desire for that. While I have a few friends from this class, I have no intention of politically supporting an additional and largely unneeded leg-up.

Non sequitur.

Indeed. I am occasionally a victim to writing down my own stream-of-consciousness. In this case, "Meritocracy is for the middle classes" was a cynical notion that reverberated in my mind as I typed the entirety of the post. Indeed, it was also in my mind as I typed this one.

Originally Posted by tablemtn

Sure, but estate taxes go much further back than the US itself. Something like the rule against perpetuities was an established part of English common law by the end of the 1600's. Estate taxes themselves were a byproduct of the end of the feudal era.

I alluded to that with the following statement:

plundering the wealthy is a time honoured move

But thanks for the wikipedia blurb history lesson.

[LordSquidworth]

Originally Posted by Amelorn

I think it can be as primitive or sophisticated as it needs to be. Taxation though isn't an evil in my mind, but a necessity. I'd examined enough case studies of "small" (read: defunded) government to know what that brings. My grandfather on the other hand reminds me of some posters here, with a pathological hatred of taxes. I remember him bitching about a preferred stock buyback which left him with tens of thousands in unexpected profit. His response to a near $100,000 windfall? ***** about the extra taxes.

As of 2012 there were 313.9 million people in the US.

As of 2012 there were 313.9 million people on the take, getting something from the government.

Narcissism tis rampant.

[oaktonite]

The central purpose of society is to provide services to its members. Many of those services -- such as defense or diplomatic representation -- are indivisible. If they are provided to any, they are provided to all. The point you raise is simply a tautology. It is of no consequence or implication.

[Delahanty]

Originally Posted by Archguy

My heart cries out for those whose estates exceed $5.25 million.

Why oh why should they have to pay any taxes at all?

Oh the humanity.

This is simply typical of those who want other people's money. I do believe the point is how much estate tax is paid (too much) not that none are paid (prove it). How unfortunate that folks want to (gasp!) decide for themselves what to do with their money.

Looks as if picking other people's pockets is alive and well.

[oaktonite]

Self-serving responsibility-shirking seems to be enjoying an even more healthy run.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by Delahanty

This is simply typical of those who want other people's money.
I do believe the point is how much estate tax is paid (too much)

Er, not enough. By a lot.

The "problem" is in the nature of who does get stuck paying vs who doesn't...
and to what degree it's their own dam fault for not protecting their interests better.

The point? If you have MILLION's to risk then you don't get any sympathy for losing it.

[markg91359]

This is simply typical of those who want other people's money. I do believe the point is how much estate tax is paid (too much) not that none are paid (prove it). How unfortunate that folks want to (gasp!) decide for themselves what to do with their money.

Looks as if picking other people's pockets is alive and well.

We've established that the first $5 million of estates is exempt from tax. Yet, you contend that "too much" estate tax is paid.

How exactly do you come to this conclusion?

I personally would lower income tax rates and collect more revenue from estate taxes. My rationale is simple: I would prefer to collect less money from working people and more money from people who stand to inherit wealth that they didn't earn.

Its not a question of MY wanting other people's money. What we are talking about here is how we are going to pay for governmental operations. Considering I'm not a beneficiary of any federal program currently, one could hardly accuse me of "wanting other people's money". What I do believe is that funding government from unearned wealth is a better policy than taking it from wage earners.

Based on that when you answer perhaps you could avoid what seems to be an obligatory lecture from some these days on "wealth redistribution". None of this wealth is being redistributed to me. Its a phony argument.

[oaktonite]

The problem here is those "governmental operations". The small-governmenters don't want them and they especially don't want to pay for them. Here is a quick list of things they'd really like to get rid of...

List of FY2011 Federal Outlays of At Least $10 billion

Food Stamps -- 78
Child Nutrition programs -- 17
Entire Dept of Commerce -- 10
Military Personnel costs -- 162
Military Operations & Maintenance -- 291
Military Procurement -- 128
Military R&D -- 75
Military Construction -- 20
Race to the Top grants -- 20
State budget support for schools -- 12
IDEA/Special Ed programs -- 17
Pell Grants etc. -- 38
Entire Dept of Energy -- 31
National Institutes of Health -- 34
Medicaid -- 275
Medicare Part-A -- 263
Medicare Part-B --234
Medicare Part-D -- 66
TANF -- 66
Child & Family services -- 11
Customs & Border Patrol -- 12
US Coast Guard -- 11
Section 8 housing -- 19
All other housing -- 19
All Community Planning block grants -- 14
Entire Dept of the Interior -- 14
FBI and DEA -- 10
Unemployment benefits -- 168
Foreign affairs -- 11
Foreign assistance -- 15
Civilian air operations -- 11
Highway programs -- 45
Transit programs -- 12
Housing & Economic Recovery -- 29
TARP -- 24
Earned Income Tax Credit -- 56
Additional Child Care Credit -- 23
Make Work Pay Tax Credit -- 14
Interest on Public Debt -- 454
Veterans Medical Benefits -- 40
Veterans Pension and Other Benefits -- 68
Corps of Engineers -- 10
EPA -- 11
Security Assistance -- 12
NASA -- 18
Civil Service Benefits -- 74
Supplemental Security Income -- 56
SS Pension & Survivor -- 599
SS Disability -- 132

[tablemtn]

My rationale is simple: I would prefer to collect less money from working people and more money from people who stand to inherit wealth that they didn't earn.

That's probably the strongest argument in favor of an estate tax. To the extent that revenue is collected at all, then surely, one of the most preferable sources would be an estate tax. It would be one of the first taxes that should be imposed, because it is a lot less bothersome and disruptive than other forms of taxation.

If we get to a point where no revenue needs to be collected, then we could have a debate over the utility of the estate tax, but until then, it's almost beside the point.

[luvmyhoss]

Originally Posted by Archguy

My heart cries out for those whose estates exceed $5.25 million.

Why oh why should they have to pay any taxes at all?

Oh the humanity.

Taxes were already paid on this money. So why are they taxing it
again?