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Not whining at all - don't know where you got that. Just working adeptly within the system I am given. You seem to resent that, but I did not design the system.
I don't resent. I simply state facts.
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And I won't be volunteering anytime soon to pay more user fees.
You misunderstand. I want to volunteer you to pay for what you ought to use.
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I have plenty of road costs - you should see just my freight bills and insane fuel charge add-ons. Maybe I can stop paying taxes into schools once my kids are grown?
You'd have to explain to me why we have public schools. Where is the natural monopoly?
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If I have to pay more user fees, it will work out. Maybe raise my prices, hire less, compensate less, donate less, find a new business niche, who knows? Maybe I'd do nothing. I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.
You can't raise prices dear....Ricardo already explained that....I can explain to you why a coffee monopolist cannot pass taxes on its supernumerary profits of you like? I would have you ask your kids, but alas public school does make them dull.
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Also, more big govt. subsidy would very likely result in more govt. contracts for me, so I am a bit conflicted on that one. Your listed markets are some of my biggest customers, and as of now, I am turning away some govt. business because they can't pay promptly enough (e.g. my lovely state). Increased user fees/subsidies in these markets would likely result in increased govt. budgets for my products.
I hope they are impressed when they unearth this civilization.
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Remember, I am not ripping you off, just running an American business which pays taxes, produces a good product, and employs many local people. You seem to have a problem with that. Would you prefer that there were just fewer of us?
No , I just want to to pay for what you use, and not make me pay. Do you begrudge me this concern? You did seem to have a concern that I was stealing your plums ....
I mean why can't we compute price and product. I may pay more , but if I get back a steak instead of burger the actual service supplied seems necessary in the computation.
The irony of most of the blather here is that the same folks who champion all that's great in the USA are the ones that have a real bone to pick regarding taxes. The real attraction to the U.S. over that of other nations was the fact that we had a ton of public good going for us, all because were willing to foot the bill for it. We had some of the best roads and public schools, better and bigger hospitals, great state universities, cheap energy, and lots more. Now our aging infrastructure needs overhauling and the latter day American wants to avoid taxes in the worst way, I hear more bitching about taxes than any other factor affecting America today.
When this place begins to resemble the third world nations, little police protection, fire protection, horrible schools, broken transportation systems, outright lawlessness at the top leadership levels, maybe then we'll determine the need to tax ourselves under a do-able system, in the meantime we'll sit amid the crumbling and whine over the plight of those poor little rich boys who will probably be living in one of the many nations ruled by despotic monsters while giving them a huge tax break.
You misunderstand. I want to volunteer you to pay for what you ought to use.
That's fine... I'll pay it if required. It won't come out of my bottom line profit margin though, ever, you know that... I'll just cut the cost in another area e.g. employee benefits.
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1
You can't raise prices dear....Ricardo already explained that....I can explain to you why a coffee monopolist cannot pass taxes on its supernumerary profits of you like?
Uh, I have and will raise prices, hon... Just like I did when fuel surcharge was added to my shipments - passed those costs directly on to my customers and they happily paid it from their deep pockets. This is one of the advantages of being the only game in town, and operating as a pass-through (now this is an angle you haven't used). Do you think I'm in some low-end retail coffee market? Prices don't matter as much in my realm. This is reality, not textbook theory. I suspect you may be a teacher encased in an ivory tower?
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1
I would have you ask your kids, but alas public school does make them dull.
Not in the most competitive GT program in arguably the top district in the entire country. Not to mention summers at top academic programs around the world. There is a reason our real estate taxes are excessively high and my community has the highest parental educational levels/elite college admittance #'s around. Also plenty of research (e.g. WSJ did a piece on it) shows the high track in an elite public school trumps the elite private school path when it comes to top college admissions. Also reduces that whole kid entitlement mentality a bit IMO (I looked very closely at private schools). And all this without paying the Philips Exeter price tag! My kids dull? - I don't think so. They have an elite education, plus they have my DNA.
Did you really think I'd plop my kids down in just any public school system? You see, people like me can not only work the financial systems to advantage, we can do it with the educational systems as well. We can afford to move to houses in the best districts and get our kids into the best programs.
The sad reality of the state of education in the U.S. is the inequality of educational opportunity. This, to me, is the #1 problem in the U.S. (not your debt leveraging). I have made many a post on the Education forum about all this. But just like debt leveraging, I won't sacrifice my kids' education and send them to a sh*tty school to prove a point. I try to make a difference through education philanthropy. Just as Obama wouldn't dare stick his girls in Chicago schools - are you kidding me? - Lab schools were one of the few options. Time to fix the system. And history has shown that, like many things, throwing more money at it does not work (e.g. CPS per student spending is high).
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1
I hope they are impressed when they unearth this civilization.
Do I hear violins? You are on one ridiculously high horse there. I think there have been a few past civilization a little bit more "impressive" - you know, like the Aztecs, the Mongols, the Nazis - to name a few...
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1
No , I just want to to pay for what you use, and not make me pay. Do you begrudge me this concern? You did seem to have a concern that I was stealing your plums ....
You can have all your plums and not take mine, especially without understanding our financial/philanthropic picture... I not only pay for what I use, I also enable other Americans to make money so they can pay for what they use also. How many people do you employ?
The irony of most of the blather here is that the same folks who champion all that's great in the USA are the ones that have a real bone to pick regarding taxes. The real attraction to the U.S. over that of other nations was the fact that we had a ton of public good going for us, all because were willing to foot the bill for it. We had some of the best roads and public schools, better and bigger hospitals, great state universities, cheap energy, and lots more. Now our aging infrastructure needs overhauling and the latter day American wants to avoid taxes in the worst way, I hear more bitching about taxes than any other factor affecting America today.
When this place begins to resemble the third world nations, little police protection, fire protection, horrible schools, broken transportation systems, outright lawlessness at the top leadership levels, maybe then we'll determine the need to tax ourselves under a do-able system, in the meantime we'll sit amid the crumbling and whine over the plight of those poor little rich boys who will probably be living in one of the many nations ruled by despotic monsters while giving them a huge tax break.
Same people who do not know what the TCP/IP stack is, where it came from, and why it would have been a disastrous, easily monopolized protocol were it proprietary. One merely need compare doc format which added no value at all but required $400 dollar a shot software to use. There is no real competition when the game is guess between one and a thousand. Meanwhile everyone saying the government should have gotten out of Microsoft's business in the anti-trust suit didn't seem to know that without government they would be bankrupt . Their software would sell for a buck a download or a DVD on the street. Their entire fortune is dependent on patent laws, courts and police. For every $1 they pay in taxes they probably got a $1000 back.
That's fine... I'll pay it if required. It won't come out of my bottom line profit margin though, ever, you know that... I'll just cut the cost in another area e.g. employee benefits.
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Uh, I have and will raise prices, hon... Just like I did when fuel surcharge was added to my shipments, or Canadian GST - passed those costs directly on to my customers and they happily paid it from their deep pockets. This is one of the advantages of being the only game in town. Do you think I'm in some low-end retail market? Prices don't matter as much in my realm.
Raising prices ain't what we discussed, babe. It was passing on a value tax which is discriminatory. How are you gonna raise prices with coffee taxes slapped on you against the tea house? Your move, but I think even the cement guys can't get you out.
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Not in one of the most competitive GT programs in arguable the top district in the entire country. Not to mention summers in top academic programs around the world. There is a reason our real estate taxes are excessively high and my community has the highest parental educational levels/elite college admittance #'s around. Also plenty of research (e.g. WSJ did a piece on it) shows the high track in an elite public school trumps the elite private school path when it comes to top college admissions. Also reduces that whole kid entitlement mentality a bit IMO (I looked very closely at private schools). And all this without paying the Philips Exeter fees!
I am looking for performance, not credentials.
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Did you really think I'd plop my kids down in just any public school system? You see, people like me can not only work the financial systems to advantage, we can do it with the educational systems as well. We can afford to move to houses in the best districts and work the system to get our kids into the best programs.
Best districts? I was in one of the best districts, and the education was crap. Thank god for libraries.
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The sad reality of the state of education in the U.S. is the inequality of educational opportunity. This, to me, is the #1 problem in the U.S. (not your debt leveraging). I have had many a post on the Education forum about all this. But just like debt leveraging, I won't sacrifice my kids' education and send them to a sh*tty school to prove a point. I try to make a difference through education philanthropy. Just as Obama wouldn't dare stick his girls in Chicago schools - are you kidding me? - Lab schools were the best option.
Of course isn't not the debt leveraging and da gubernment enforced legalized monopoly that drives our industrial inputs to subsistence while rentier idiots make the decisions ...That is because it benefits you even though you never gave a thought about why you picked these properties up so cheap. You see, rentierism is profitable in the short run, or even mid run , but it always falls apart in the long run , every time. See Detroit where even a slight property tax puts it further into negative equity.
I wonder if you are curious about Germany being the most financially poor country in Europe? All that means it labor has to pay the land owners and banks the least. Financial wealth also means debt ridden aka PIIGS,
For the rich men without scruple drew the estate into their own hands, excluding the rightful heirs from their succession; and all the wealth being centered upon the few, the generality were poor and miserable. Honorable pursuits, for which there was no longer leisure, were neglected; the state was filled with sordid business, and with hatred and envy of the rich. There did not remain above seven hundred of the old Spartan families, of which, perhaps, one hundred might have estate in land, the rest were destitute alike of wealth and of honour, were tardy and unperforming in the defence of their country against its enemies abroad, and eagerly watched the opportunity for change and revolution at home.
-Plutach
The only ones who care at all about the state are those with assets. What does a dish washer care? The Huns need dish washers too. What about vascular surgeons? If China ends up with the US, Chinese have a use for vascular surgeons. Property owners? Bye now. Sports Franchises change hands because owners own, but don't make the assets. That's why the good players stay where they are no matter who owns it. Taxation and government
that protects these assets and owners? Cui Bono?
Sparta turned to crap not soon after. They were lucky to survive the Athenians . No investment in defending the society.
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Do I hear violins? You are on one ridiculously high horse there. I think there have been a few past civilization a little bit more impressive - you know, like the Aztecs, the Mongols, the Nazis - to name a few...
You were the one whining about it and getting on your high horse on a depressed gen-Yer who did not get the same deal some of us did. Who do you think pays for gentrification? I just can't stand when people whine, especially out of ignorance .
I do think of myself highly. True that. Got me on that one. I don't know how you could stand it cause if it were not me, I 'd drive me nuts.
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You can have all your plums, just don't take mine, especially without understanding my financial picture... I not only pay for what I use, I also enable other Americans to make money so they can pay for what they use also. How many people do you employ?
Just stop the whining over paying for the infrastructure that benefits you. It goes right into your property values. And certainly don't expect what California is doing to last forever.
You don't employ anyone on ground rents so stop changing the subject. We already went over it years ago about buildings which is capital verse the ground value. If you still don't get it, or want to raise a strawman, I just don't waste time on those that slow on the uptake.
If you were the real thing then you would want more ground taxes since your lazy competitors would be punished, and your capital would be untaxed as would be your profits You would take over the neighborhood. But since you don't seem to like that idea, I have to assume otherwise.
Raising prices ain't what we discussed, babe. It was passing on a value tax which is discriminatory. How are you gonna raise prices with coffee taxes slapped on you against the tea house? Your move, but I think even the cement guys can't get you out. I am looking for performance, not credentials.
Yes, I am a babe but way out of your league sweetie.
I have complete flexibility in setting prices to cover any future costs I incur. Who do you think sets my prices in a big market with 1 player? That would be me. I just instituted a 10% across the board price increase and not one of my customers even blinked. Why the hell didn't I do that earlier? Are you not understanding that my debt leveraging many years ago has allowed me to move into other areas? I am now so well-diversified that cement can't dry at my feet - I move too fast.
Best districts? I was in one of the best districts, and the education was crap. Thank god for libraries.
Best districts = education + connections. Maybe you did not make the latter?
Of course isn't not the debt leveraging and da gubernment enforced legalized monopoly that drives our industrial inputs to subsistence while rentier idiots make the decisions ...That is because it benefits you even though you never gave a thought about why you picked these properties up so cheap. You see, rentierism is profitable in the short run, or even mid run , but it always falls apart in the long run , every time. See Detroit where even a slight property tax puts it further into negative equity.
My only decision is to buy low, sell high, cut costs, make profit. Pretty clear cut. Did I mention I am not an elected official and I did not actually create the laws? I only try to follow the money. I will follow the money wherever it goes, away from debt leveraging, away from real estate, away from the U.S.
When I was in Kindergarten, I was making money selling overpriced baseball cards to boys on bubblegum credit. Do you want to back tax me on that? I did not create the system - our government did that - I just operate effectively and legally within it, all while providing many benefits to the local economy. Blame your govt., not the business owners who will provide the jobs.
The only ones who care at all about the state are those with assets. What does a dish washer care? The Huns need dish washers too. What about vascular surgeons? If China ends up with the US, Chinese have a use for vascular surgeons. Property owners? Bye now. Sports Franchises change hands because owners own, but don't make the assets. That's why the good players stay where they are no matter who owns it. Taxation and government
that protects these assets and owners? Cui Bono?
Sparta turned to crap not soon after. They were lucky to survive the Athenians . No investment in defending the society.
Lucky for me then that I have more than U.S. property - this will help me to avoid being burned at the stake.
You were the one whining about it and getting on your high horse on a depressed gen-Yer who did not get the same deal some of us did. Who do you think pays for gentrification? I just can't stand when people whine, especially out of ignorance
Never whined. Truth and tough love. Big difference. This is what I am trying to give you a dose of. I just can't stand when people lie, especially out of ignorance. So desperate. Plenty of people have had it harder.
I do think of myself highly. True that. Got me on that one. I don't know how you could stand it cause if it were not me, I 'd drive me nuts.
I think of myself more highly.
I may be ignorant of some Economics theories and have admitted such, but you are ignorant of running a business - I think you mentioned you couldn't even handle a sole proprietorship? Try running a multi-million dollar company with many employees, vendors, customers - then come back and talk to me. Or do you think any idiot can do that? There are very few people who can do what I do. You think Economic textbook knowledge is more important? Unfortunately for you, the market doesn't think so.
Just stop the whining over paying for the infrastructure that benefits you. It goes right into your property values. And certainly don't expect what California is doing to last forever.
Again, never whine. You just don't like my answer so you are projecting emotion onto me. I have been most objective and non-emotional in explaining that I will pay any fees that come my way and either 1) Cut costs such as employee benefits/profit sharing OR 2) Pass the cost onto my customer by increasing prices OR 3) Move my operations to a more tax friendly environment. What is so hard to understand about all this?
You don't employ anyone on ground rents so stop changing the subject. We already went over it years ago about buildings which is capital verse the ground value. If you still don't get it, or want to raise a strawman, I just don't waste time on those that slow on the uptake.
Years ago? I was able to leverage rents for a line of credit in order to pay my first employee salaries. I don't need to do that anymore now that I'm not in a cashflow crunch.
If you were the real thing then you would want more ground taxes since your lazy competitors would be punished, and your capital would be untaxed as would be your profits You would take over the neighborhood. But since you don't seem to like that idea, I have to assume otherwise.
I could care less whether you think I'm the real thing. But I have already taken over the neighborhood and I have absolutely no incentive for change because I know my business benefits society. I will donate money through my philanthropy, not through my business, unless someone (some law) tells me otherwise, and then I will pass on the cost. Now that is the real world for you, not textbook.
I once liked your writing style and perspective on Economic history. But with all your "whiner" name-calling, I'm thinking you are just another self-righteous, self-entitled, Economics textbook-thumping whiner who may even be a bit cray-cray (the jury's still out on that). You are losing your charm, sweetie. Night-night.
I could care less whether you think I'm the real thing. But I have already taken over the neighborhood and I have absolutely no incentive for change because I know my business benefits society. I will donate money through my philanthropy, not through my business, unless someone (some law) tells me otherwise, and then I will pass on the cost. Now that is the real world for you, not textbook.
I am going to ignore the rest which is full of personal crap( mine included) and straw men arguments. Think anyone else wants to read that? Other than that, if you are going to complain , do it with a rational basis.
PLANO, Texas (May 22, 2013) - J. C. Penney Company, Inc. (NYSE: JCP) (the "Company") announced today that its wholly owned subsidiary, J. C. Penney Corporation, Inc. ("JCP"), has entered into a new five-year $2.25 billion senior secured term loan credit facility. The size of the facility was increased from the $1.75 billion anticipated in the commitment letter the Company announced on April 29, 2013.
Proceeds of the term loan credit facility will be used to finance the cash tender offer for the Notes (as defined and described in more detail below) and to fund ongoing working capital requirements and other general corporate purposes. The term loan credit facility is guaranteed by the Company and certain subsidiaries of JCP, and is secured by mortgages on certain real estate of JCP and the guarantors, in addition to substantially all other assets of JCP and the guarantors.
Basically a proven failure of a retailer is given credit( printing money) due, not because of a sound business plan, but because they hold "assets" ,much of which is a da gubnerment protected monopoly in the form of a ground rent. These people are now "economic planners", but with no market basis on goods or services. This happens all the time.
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I once liked your writing style and perspective on Economic history.
I know.
Most be have desire to be liked. I don't have it, not primarily anyway. When it gets too cozy, it destroys my objectivity. I like to get to the point. You like my hair? Go talk about mops somewhere else.
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But with all your "whiner" name-calling, I'm thinking you are just another self-righteous, self-entitled, Economics textbook-thumping whiner who may even be a bit cray-cray (the jury's still out on that). You are losing your charm, sweetie. Night-night.
"whining" is perhaps a poor choice of words given my annoyance of all the anecdotes. I'll give you that. Seems to have backfired into even more personal defensiveness. Taking what the system gives you is NOT the context of the argument. Straw man arguments and lack of context, that is how you tick me off. Works on me like "whining" works on you. Its a waste of time.
See ya around if you ever want to have a clean argument.
The irony of most of the blather here is that the same folks who champion all that's great in the USA are the ones that have a real bone to pick regarding taxes. The real attraction to the U.S. over that of other nations was the fact that we had a ton of public good going for us, all because were willing to foot the bill for it. We had some of the best roads and public schools, better and bigger hospitals, great state universities, cheap energy, and lots more. Now our aging infrastructure needs overhauling and the latter day American wants to avoid taxes in the worst way, I hear more bitching about taxes than any other factor affecting America today.
When this place begins to resemble the third world nations, little police protection, fire protection, horrible schools, broken transportation systems, outright lawlessness at the top leadership levels, maybe then we'll determine the need to tax ourselves under a do-able system, in the meantime we'll sit amid the crumbling and whine over the plight of those poor little rich boys who will probably be living in one of the many nations ruled by despotic monsters while giving them a huge tax break.
the govt spends tax money with zero accountability or efficiency and politicians often use tax dollars to buy votes. when people get so much less out of their tax dollars than they should they have every right to be angry.that doesn't even take into account that if you take 2 middle class people making the same salary and person a is single with no kids and person b is married with kids person a pays way more than person b in taxes while person b gets way more benefits from the govt.
the govt spends tax money with zero accountability or efficiency and politicians often use tax dollars to buy votes. when people get so much less out of their tax dollars than they should they have every right to be angry.that doesn't even take into account that if you take 2 middle class people making the same salary and person a is single with no kids and person b is married with kids person a pays way more than person b in taxes while person b gets way more benefits from the govt.
Politicians use tax dollars to buy votes? I suppose but its a lot easier to buy politicians to change a law which can result in billions. Or in the case of the bailout 29 trillion in liabilities.
Politicians use tax dollars to buy votes? I suppose but its a lot easier to buy politicians to change a law which can result in billions. Or in the case of the bailout 29 trillion in liabilities.
well that's the first step to getting them elected, using tax dollar to buy votes is the second
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