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Old 08-17-2022, 07:14 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,964,986 times
Reputation: 43666

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
America still offers you the opportunity to get money.
Was a time when any idiot could get a no/low skill job that paid well enough...he could raise a family.

The PROBLEM is that as time and technology moved on the raw number of no/low skill jobs declined.
Some do still exist but no where near enough to meet the needs of the generations that came later.

Now, this pool of surplus to need warm bodies is counted in many Millions; ~50Million in the US.
These are the people who say that being poor sucks.
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Old 08-17-2022, 07:23 AM
 
1,137 posts, read 1,097,993 times
Reputation: 3212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Was a time when any idiot could get a no/low skill job that paid well enough...he could raise a family.

The PROBLEM is that as time and technology moved on the raw number of no/low skill jobs declined.
Some do still exist but no where near enough to meet the needs of the generations that came later.

Now, this pool of surplus to need warm bodies is counted in many Millions; ~50Million in the US.
These are the people who say that being poor sucks.
I haven’t seen a warm body worth a penny working at Walmart, yet they employ hundreds of them at each store. The greeter is always on their phone, the self checkout assistants are always in a group chatting about their social lives, the ones near the actual aisles do their best to avoid eye contact. Yet the minimum wage at Walmart is $15ph.

Perhaps a problem is that’s the benchmark for $15ph and in order to progress to a $30ph job, it requires actual effort. Certainly a shock
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Old 08-17-2022, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,623 posts, read 9,454,674 times
Reputation: 22963
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The PROBLEM is that as time and technology moved on the raw number of no/low skill jobs declined.
Some do still exist but no where near enough to meet the needs of the generations that came later.
eBay, amazon, uber, FB marketplace, instacart, door dash, postmates, youtube, onlyfans, turo, airbnb, etc.

Oh yes, technology really hurts the job market.
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Old 08-17-2022, 08:27 AM
 
1,108 posts, read 528,740 times
Reputation: 2534
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Was a time when any idiot could get a no/low skill job that paid well enough...he could raise a family.

The PROBLEM is that as time and technology moved on the raw number of no/low skill jobs declined.
Some do still exist but no where near enough to meet the needs of the generations that came later.

Now, this pool of surplus to need warm bodies is counted in many Millions; ~50Million in the US.
These are the people who say that being poor sucks.
Then i say for use who own apartments or invested in REITS are in good shape- we can keep raising rents while these units get packed with mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, cousins and a aunt or uncle. Thank you for making dumb ass decisions in your life so all you can do i hold a hamburger flipper job. I am comforted knowing my retirement income will only keep going up.
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Old 08-17-2022, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,802,285 times
Reputation: 39453
The fact is our standard of living is downgrading. "anything you you like" is going to have to change.



If anything you like is limited to a fancy new car, a 75" TV, or a pricey motorized toy (motorcycle, snowmobile, ATV, jet ski, boat, etc), or fancy name brand clothing, then the problem complained of will only get worse. It will also expand upwards.


If you are young and cannot afford "anything you like" Just wait until you get older and realize that you cannot retire until age 7 or even 80 despite the fact that your dad or Grandpa retired in their 50s. Or you discover that you have to die now because the $2000 a day pill that will keep you alive is out of reach and your insurance will not cover it. Or you realize that you cannot afford to buy new cars anymore, you have to buy used ones only, despite the fact that your last four cars were new. Or you have to sell the motorcycle, snowmobile or ATV you finally managed to save up for, so that you can help finance your kids college. We cannot have the things that our parents or grandparents have. We cannto even have the things that we had ten years ago.
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Old 08-17-2022, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,876 posts, read 25,139,139 times
Reputation: 19074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
The fact is our standard of living is downgrading. "anything you you like" is going to have to change.



If anything you like is limited to a fancy new car, a 75" TV, or a pricey motorized toy (motorcycle, snowmobile, ATV, jet ski, boat, etc), or fancy name brand clothing, then the problem complained of will only get worse. It will also expand upwards.


If you are young and cannot afford "anything you like" Just wait until you get older and realize that you cannot retire until age 7 or even 80 despite the fact that your dad or Grandpa retired in their 50s. Or you discover that you have to die now because the $2000 a day pill that will keep you alive is out of reach and your insurance will not cover it. Or you realize that you cannot afford to buy new cars anymore, you have to buy used ones only, despite the fact that your last four cars were new. Or you have to sell the motorcycle, snowmobile or ATV you finally managed to save up for, so that you can help finance your kids college. We cannot have the things that our parents or grandparents have. We cannto even have the things that we had ten years ago.
Anything you like was never really reality.

Dad was high income but a terrible spender. Growing up there was a new 911 or M3 or NSX every few years, travel trailer plus a new truck or Suburban as often, sailboat wasn't cheap although at least he didn't turn that over and had the same one since before I was born. When the business went south that interestingly permanently changed. Financial situation recovered quickly when he closed the business down and got a job. He died with the then 20+ year-old pickup and a $2,000 motorcycle rather than a new $60,000 truck and a 911 not so much because he was impoverished but because something clicked and he stopped burning money just as fast as it came in.

Me I'm much more modest income but have some of the same things. I've got an order in on a new F-150. Whether or not I end up with it just depends on whether Ford will sell it to me. If they will I'll happily buy it. I have the silly sports car but it's a modern classic one and fully depreciated, probably worth 25k with how much appreciation the used market as seen so certainly no 911 Turbo. No sailboat or travel trailers. Prius is converted as a car camper. Bit cramped, but it's got heat/AC, fridge, two burner stove. Really simple conversion that's removable in a few minutes. I just use it as a basecamp when hiking, not like I spend time in it. F-150 would be nicer with a camper shell, much more room, tow the sports car to the track days would be nice.

Being "poor" doesn't actually really suck. I've been pretty poor for a number of years coming out of college when I didn't have steady work. I always had some work, just there was periods where it was temp jobs doing menial labor which even steady full-time that pays poorly. What sucks is living hand to mouth. Whatever you need to do to not do that I highly, highly advise. If it's having roommates or sleeping on a friends couch, so be it. The new cars, ATVs, snowmobiles, $200 jeans, eating out almost every day, blowing $100 on a Friday night at the neighborhood bar... it's nice. It's really not at all necessary though for your happiness.

Last edited by Malloric; 08-17-2022 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 08-17-2022, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
2,388 posts, read 2,340,968 times
Reputation: 3093
Yes it DOES suck. I know from personal experience.

I'm currently earning the highest wage I've ever made. That required me having to move from the northeast, but still. Having said that, it's still not even close to 6 figures, even with the shift differential. Debating taking an online data analytics course to add a skill on top of my decade of logistics/warehousing experience.

As much as I sometimes enjoyed not working FT in the 2000s, I do NOT want to go back to the welfare office. Screw that. Nor do I want to rely on HUD again.
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Old 08-18-2022, 05:16 PM
 
3,933 posts, read 2,192,100 times
Reputation: 9996
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
And here I am. With that comment, I'm sure that it has never occurred to you that we Bootstrappers were where the OP was in life. But we actually did something about it.

It's one thing to complain about being poor when you're 18 or 22. Everybody is strapped for cash then. But your position in life when you're 40 is the sum of all the decisions you've made in life, both the good and the boneheaded. So if you're still complaining about being poor when you're 45, then you are the number one reason for being poor. No two ways about it.

Yeah, yeah. I get it. Your boss is a meanie. The economy sucks. There aren't any jobs in your town. You don't have the skills or education to get a better job. I've heard it all before. Yet, almost without fail, the same people I've heard make those complaints have zero work ethic, whine about their job, practically sprint out the door at 5:00 and then head home to watch TV or hang out down at the bar rather than invest in a class at night or on the weekend. I guess they would rather complain about their lot in life than do something about it.

Guess what? You aren't entitled to make large amounts of money. And in my entire life, I've never met anyone with a job who DIDN'T think he or she worked harder than most. The people who say, "Yeah, boy I am a total slacker and love that I get away with it" simply don't exist.

Heck, when I had my business, I hired someone who had worked thirty years at the Social Security Administration. You would have thought, to hear her tell it, that it was a freaking Viking longship over there in the entrails of bureaucracy. But when she got to the private sector, she was in for a rude shock. She never realized how cushy a government job really was and how little accountability she really had. And I didn't even run the kind of place where a lot of overtime was necessary. We just expected you to do your job well and do it on time and on budget.

I started out of school earning below the poverty line and no marketable skills outside of being able to write a coherent sentence. What's more, the economy at the time made the current situation look a little like a cakewalk, with my city having unemployment around 12%. So I worked two menial jobs and started networking and invested my time in learning new skills. There was literally nothing I wouldn't be willing to learn in order to improve my value.

So, surprise, I was able to handle more important assignments. And I did those assignments efficiently. Further, when a job didn't pay me enough for what I was doing, I leveraged those contacts I had made to find a better paying job. What's more, I saved every freaking dime I possibly could. I drove cars until the wheels fell off and didn't blow a lot of money on entertainment.

I mean, hell, if the OP were halfway diligent about matters, he would find out that the government, Federal and state, have job training programs galore. Google is his friend.

That's bootstrapping my friend, otherwise known as work and making prudent financial decisions. If you want to make money, it's what you have to do. There's really no way out of it.
What would you do if you got a dreadful disease- can’t breathe or walk, need expensive treatments?
Or your child got so sick you must quit and take care of them? Or your elderly parents need care?
Or your spouse left you and took half of your house and cash?
Or your business failed when everything moved overseas all over sudden?
Or the contractor got hurt while fixing your fancy house and he had 5 kids to feed and better lawyers?
Etc.Etc.

How is bootstrapping works then?
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Old 08-18-2022, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,876 posts, read 25,139,139 times
Reputation: 19074
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00k4ward View Post
What would you do if you got a dreadful disease- can’t breathe or walk, need expensive treatments?
Or your child got so sick you must quit and take care of them? Or your elderly parents need care?
Or your spouse left you and took half of your house and cash?
Or your business failed when everything moved overseas all over sudden?
Or the contractor got hurt while fixing your fancy house and he had 5 kids to feed and better lawyers?
Etc.Etc.

How is bootstrapping works then?
Always astounds me how people don't bother to carry adequate insurance, life and disability. I guess it makes sense if you're single, no dependents. I'll never understand it for primary bread winners with dependents. But it's just one of a long list of financial decisions people make I'll never understand.

Caring for elderly parents is a nice thing to do. If I needed to choose between them and my own kids, however, it would not be a hard choice. There's government programs to care for indigent elderly people. Child is a little harder. I know a number of families with disabled children who had to make some hard choices around that. Say there's two teachers, pretty comfortable on two incomes but you can't raise a family on one teacher's income here. One got a better paying job in the private sector and the other quit working to take care of the disabled child. Others just saw the income drop significantly as they went from two incomes to one or one spouse worked graveyard and they rarely saw each other.

Businesses fail all the time, not the end of the world. LLC/S-Corp so you're not personally liable for debt, move on.
Use licensed and bonded contractors rather than hiring people under the table to work on your house. Home owner's insurance + umbrella.
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Old 08-18-2022, 09:28 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,353 posts, read 51,942,966 times
Reputation: 23746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athair View Post
I haven’t seen a warm body worth a penny working at Walmart, yet they employ hundreds of them at each store. The greeter is always on their phone, the self checkout assistants are always in a group chatting about their social lives, the ones near the actual aisles do their best to avoid eye contact.
I rarely shop at Walmart now, since there aren't any near me... but I do have a funny story from one time when I did! I was looking for something specific (I don't remember what), and asked a stock clerk where to find this item. She kinda waved her finger around, and replied "One of the other aisles, I think."

WOW. That was so helpful.
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