Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-31-2013, 05:02 AM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,863 posts, read 6,281,943 times
Reputation: 8107

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
...

If you give the government money, they spend it. They don't pay down debt with it. They spend what they are given and turn around and borrow more.
^^THIS^^ The debt will never be paid down.

Reps, reps, reps...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-01-2013, 05:26 AM
 
329 posts, read 459,281 times
Reputation: 316
So how long this system can work.?

Let s see, I m by example a dad with 10 children.

I tell to my kids they can buy each over their toys with fiat family money.

I print 500$, I give 50$ to each, and they start to trade toys with this money.

A few kids want more gadgets, but do nothing than watching TV . they just want more toys... I print more fiat money and I give 2000$ to 2 of my children. They can buy all gadgets of their siblings.

At the end, one got all gadgets, and others just got money and no toys anymore.

So kids with money only come to me because they want buy new toys from their father , and I say "sorry guys, this money has no value, come from my laser printer", so kids realise they have only fiat money...And go to their bedroom crying and lamenting...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2013, 10:21 AM
 
621 posts, read 656,492 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapcharly View Post
So how long this system can work.?

Let s see, I m by example a dad with 10 children.

I tell to my kids they can buy each over their toys with fiat family money.

I print 500$, I give 50$ to each, and they start to trade toys with this money.

A few kids want more gadgets, but do nothing than watching TV . they just want more toys... I print more fiat money and I give 2000$ to 2 of my children. They can buy all gadgets of their siblings.

At the end, one got all gadgets, and others just got money and no toys anymore.

So kids with money only come to me because they want buy new toys from their father , and I say "sorry guys, this money has no value, come from my laser printer", so kids realise they have only fiat money...And go to their bedroom crying and lamenting...
T-bills are as good as cash. Too much cash and T-bills are worth less
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2013, 11:22 PM
 
171 posts, read 227,492 times
Reputation: 38
In order for fiat currency to be printed "out of thin air", the acting lender (Note Holder) convinces the homeowner they received something valuable for a loan. But that is not what happened.
The homeowners Promissory Note is the Negotiable Instrument being used to have the fiat currency printed out of thin air.
They turn homeowners credit into the fiat currency, attach interest (usage fees) to it, then loan it back to the homeowner. They just sold the homeowner fiat currency that has no value... with interest. They just turned homeowners credit into debt. The interest attached to the fiat currency without being backed, causes the fiat currency to become negative value(debt).

The homeowner is financing debt.(verified by Wells Fargo). Ok, but why oh why would they go through the trouble of printing valueless currency and use it in place of homeowners credit? Because they cannot attach interest (or usage fees) to homeowner's credit.

They cannot place a lien on homeowners credit but they can place a lien on "their" fiat currency.

If fiat currency is valueless (or non-backed), why not leave homeowners credit as it is, just a number that represents an amount of value the homeowner can work and create?

Because when interest is attached to "non-backed" fiat currency, they collect the currency for interest payments backed with homeowners energy an labor. They collect value back in exchange for the debt. The homeowners energy an labor gives the fiat currency *buying* power.
They sell the homeowner debt but collect the debt back with value added by the homeowner.

They expect you to pay back the fiat currency printed out of thin air, with value added from your energy and labor.
How long does it take to print the fiat currency?
How long does it take to work and create value for the fiat currency they printed out of thin air, somewhere around 30 years?

This may help explain why a mort-gage translates to dead- pledge
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2013, 05:58 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 5,995,774 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapcharly View Post
So how long this system can work.?

Let s see, I m by example a dad with 10 children.

I tell to my kids they can buy each over their toys with fiat family money.

I print 500$, I give 50$ to each, and they start to trade toys with this money.

A few kids want more gadgets, but do nothing than watching TV . they just want more toys... I print more fiat money and I give 2000$ to 2 of my children. They can buy all gadgets of their siblings.

At the end, one got all gadgets, and others just got money and no toys anymore.

So kids with money only come to me because they want buy new toys from their father , and I say "sorry guys, this money has no value, come from my laser printer", so kids realise they have only fiat money...And go to their bedroom crying and lamenting...
Comparing government spending with household/individual spending is probably the stupidest comparison people keep making...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2013, 04:47 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,564,641 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Too much of what? You pay off the national debt by borrowing from banks. Not kidding either. The only two sources of dollars are monetized government bonds and bank credit.

And bankers get fresh money to loan how exactly?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2013, 05:53 PM
 
Location: TX
795 posts, read 1,388,688 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Comparing government spending with household/individual spending is probably the stupidest comparison people keep making...
Yes.

Along with speaking of the national debt like it's an impending mortgage payment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2013, 05:59 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,564,641 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirron View Post
^^THIS^^ The debt will never be paid down.

Reps, reps, reps...
Yes, it will not be paid down because it takes new debt to create new money to pay old debts with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:52 AM
 
329 posts, read 459,281 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Comparing government spending with household/individual spending is probably the stupidest comparison people keep making...
And why not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 01:24 AM
 
4,765 posts, read 3,721,308 times
Reputation: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapcharly View Post
And why not?
As someone who spends an inordinate amount of time making predictions on the fate of the US economy (re: the FED and national debt), don't you think you should already know this? If only to present a well informed argument?

Here is a hint: What does the FED have that you do not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top