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Old 11-05-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,892,362 times
Reputation: 6573

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With the staggering debt the treasury has amassed and the sizable balance sheet the fed has run up trying to keep rates low (making the debt less expensive) it is hard to see how we turn the corner. We have a leadership that is in denial and a public that is kept in the dark (partly because the size of the debt is so large it is incomprehensible) so none of the changes under discussion even take on the debt, only the rate of increase. Stability and future prosperity has been jeopardized and wealth confiscation will only turn more against central control. We are watching the beginning of the devolution of western governments leading to unprecedented mass change in society with the acceleration of the divide between the haves (elites in power) and have nots (the rest of us).

Obviously I see this as a larger scale issue than some and am not an optimist.

Last edited by cdelena; 11-05-2013 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,861,675 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Of course in Greece where they are not monetarily sovereign, the powers that be may have reasons to confiscate wealth in order to avoid national bankruptcy. To do so here would be nothing short of lunacy!

What have you seen from our government in the last 4 years that isn't short of lunacy? ACA is wealth redistribution. The federal government has already gone into federal employees' pension funds - with the promise to pay it back.

The death tax is wealth redistribution. Our current path of socialism, soon to be followed by communism, is but pure redistribution.

Yes, lunacy abounds in the USA at present time and it isn't done yet.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,267,618 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Our National Debt is our money. It is the world's money. It is a great source of our power in the world today. You seem to want to reduce our money and our power.

There is a great deal of difference between national and personal debt. Especially as it relates to a monetarily sovereign country.

The Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget: Here
While there may be some differences, there is one overpowering similarity, debt whether it is the national debt or household debt must be serviced, and that is what is now in danger of becoming a crisis as the debacle over the debt ceiling clarified.

At some point in the not too distant future, whether by economic decline or a rise in interest rates, the US government will not be able to service its debts. This scenario would cause worldwide economic turmoil and will not be allowed to happen.

The current policy of borrowing the money to service the debt is not sustainable and would not be able to stabilize a crisis of confidence.

Make no mistake, the spending spree enjoyed by both sides of the governmental isle does at some point have to be paid for and it will be paid for with your assets.

The IMF issued reports about the WTO and NAFTA years before they became reality, discount their view of the future at your own risk.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:07 PM
 
18,791 posts, read 8,401,221 times
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Lunacy is where a perfect counterfeiter decides to cancel his insurance policy and sell his house to raise cash!
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:12 PM
 
20,622 posts, read 19,271,044 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
What have you seen from our government in the last 4 years that isn't short of lunacy? ACA is wealth redistribution. The federal government has already gone into federal employees' pension funds - with the promise to pay it back.

The death tax is wealth redistribution. Our current path of socialism, soon to be followed by communism, is but pure redistribution.

Yes, lunacy abounds in the USA at present time and it isn't done yet.
What about the "private"(shadow government) banker, real estate ponzi, wealth distribution scam that helps account for 95% of the total bank credit, money supply? What about the $700-900 per year mortgage interest tax created out of bank credit thin air for a 250k mortgage that is only 250k because that is what banks are lending for a typical house? Why do you care about the bottle of Skol in Uncle Sam's pants when bankers are walking off with 18 year old single malts. I don't get it. I just don't understand why people love bankers, but hate their government when banker rip them off far more.


The biggest da guberment scam does not come from taxation or the federal budget. It comes from the private favors and powers it distributes , particularly to the FIRE sector. All it has to do is pen a law to force me to give all my money to some "private" dirt bag. But the easiest by far is to give out money creation powers as it does to the banking sector and its asset bloating friends in insurance and real estate.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:41 PM
 
18,791 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
While there may be some differences, there is one overpowering similarity, debt whether it is the national debt or household debt must be serviced, and that is what is now in danger of becoming a crisis as the debacle over the debt ceiling clarified.

At some point in the not too distant future, whether by economic decline or a rise in interest rates, the US government will not be able to service its debts. This scenario would cause worldwide economic turmoil and will not be allowed to happen.

The current policy of borrowing the money to service the debt is not sustainable and would not be able to stabilize a crisis of confidence.

Make no mistake, the spending spree enjoyed by both sides of the governmental isle does at some point have to be paid for and it will be paid for with your assets.

The IMF issued reports about the WTO and NAFTA years before they became reality, discount their view of the future at your own risk.
Interest has been on the order of $1B a day for decades. An absolute pittance (0.1%) compared to daily traded volume. We will continue to find (create) the money to pay all National Debt as it comes due. Barring some national size catastrophic Black Swan or totally insane debt hawk convulsion.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:20 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,911,941 times
Reputation: 12122
Wealth confiscation + Country with approximately one gun for every person = Bad ending
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:24 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,506,627 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Our National Debt is our money. It is the world's money. It is a great source of our power in the world today. You seem to want to reduce our money and our power.

There is a great deal of difference between national and personal debt. Especially as it relates to a monetarily sovereign country.

The Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget: Here
That article made me laugh. After I stopped laughing, I was then sad when I realized people buy into it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:33 PM
 
20,622 posts, read 19,271,044 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Interest has been on the order of $1B a day for decades. An absolute pittance (0.1%) compared to daily traded volume. We will continue to find (create) the money to pay all National Debt as it comes due. Barring some national size catastrophic Black Swan or totally insane debt hawk convulsion.

We can also go to a negative savings rate or borrow money from banks to pay off the debt. Choose your head line:

Saving rate in US a negative 10%!

(national debt shrinks at record pace since savings is computed in total government liabilities. )


Americans going into massive personal debt!

(government runs big surplus. Only way to keep the money supply stable is a matching private debt. See last surplus)


The US is growing the National debt at record pace!

(The private sector deleveraged mortgage debt 1 trillion and the Fed has purchased trillions of securities and rebated the proceeds to the Treasury , meaning several trilllion is phony debt, only in existence to supply liquidity, ya know since it is the money supply)



Debt is always good and bad for someone. Its especially good for the financial press that can always feed the population hysterical nonsense to the financial flat earth society, who still cannot seem to tell me how money comes into existence with net equity under this system.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:38 PM
 
18,791 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Wealth confiscation + Country with approximately one gun for every person = Bad ending
National Debt = $17T. National Assets $175 - 200T. Sell something off if it worries you!
(I don't mean you personally)
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