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Old 12-08-2013, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,241 posts, read 6,236,206 times
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This is a huge problem and we are all complicit in its making through our own complacency. Millions of young people are graduating from high school and college and are unable to find jobs that can support a sustainable living or in many cases they are not able to find any jobs at all.

We set the educational goal of sending all students to college while ignoring the needs of the nation to repair crumbling and outdated infrastructure, refit our country with the next-generation power systems, and revitalize our cities and urban core. These are all jobs that require vocational training which is no longer offered to many students throughout the country.

As many have pointed out, eventually there are few consumers to buy the consumer goods largely manufactured and eventually delivered by robots and technology. The purpose of a civilized society is to be organized to meet the needs of all its citizens. Money is a vehicle to make the exchange of goods and services more orderly and efficient. Money was not created for robots. It also wasn't created to have technology take advantage of other technology to just generate money (ie. automatic trading programs designed to capture spread discrepancies of large electronic trades).

Money represents stored labor. Without labor the whole system is worthless. Theodore Roosevelt realized this 100 years ago. "I believe that human rights are supreme over all other rights; that wealth should be the servant, not the master of the people." ~Theodore Roosevelt.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:29 AM
 
17,391 posts, read 7,123,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
Money represents stored labor. Without labor the whole system is worthless. Theodore Roosevelt realized this 100 years ago. "I believe that human rights are supreme over all other rights; that wealth should be the servant, not the master of the people." ~Theodore Roosevelt.
Of course Lincoln agreed, as did Edison and Ford.

Quote by Abraham Lincoln: The privilege of creating and issuing money is ...

Public Banking Institute - Muscle Shoals Article

As the Employer of Last Resort, the Federal Gov't can provide the funds for all such infrastructure, new and promising technologies, education and training and funding of any and all useful jobs for the currently unemployed.

http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_515.pdf

The money is the means, not the wealth itself. Money can always be created centrally. And if there is a useful public need, especially in a weak economy or for a war, that should be considered before taxing.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,584,902 times
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As efficiency continues to increase and fewer and fewer jobs are needed to produce everything we need we'll probably eventually have to go to a system where everyone is provided a minimum income through transfer payments. People can complain about socialism all they want but that will probably be the reality. Either we do that, or we end up with a sharply divided two-class system of workers and peasants with continually weak demand for goods and services because half the population can't afford to buy anything. In the future there shouldn't be a need for everyone to work 40 hours a week anyway. There's really no need for it now but we keep doing it because that's what we did before.

Automation is going to continue to happen whether we like it or not, either here or in other countries. If we try to resist it here we'll just lose jobs to other countries and our companies will be less competitive. Automation for the short term can bring a lot of jobs back to the US from places like southeast Asia. If we can pay 50 Americans to do the job 300 unskilled Chinese workers were doing then it starts to make a lot more sense to relocate the factory back to the US. A move like that might only create 50 jobs but that's 50 jobs we didn't have before. We should be trying to steal jobs from other countries, not shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to resist increases and efficiency and paying people to do obsolete jobs.

Germany has 80 million people, not a lot of natural resources, and they export nearly as much as the United States, which has over 300 million people and tons of natural resources, and ~70% as much as China which has over a billion people. They have a strong, highly automated manufacturing sector run by skilled workers and their unemployment rate is about 5%. That's the type of economy we should be moving towards. We can't compete globally paying people to make things inefficiently using manual labor, and as Ross Perot said a long time ago in a debate with Al Gore, "people who don't make anything can't buy anything."

Then as efficiency continues to increase we'll have to look at things like shorter work weeks, encouraging early retirement, and minimum income because at some point we'll likely run out of jobs for a large percentage of the population, which isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on how we adjust to it.

Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 12-08-2013 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:10 AM
 
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Krell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of my favorite movies of all time. The Krell no longer had use for their physical form.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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I think much of this fear is a bit trumped up. Yes, there is a great deal of new and exciting technology... It just doesn't work in every environment though. For the profit margin and sales generated at a typical McDonalds restaurant, the costs of automating would not be supported by the sales generated.

3D printers are neat, and useful for certain things. They make a useful tool in the prototype setting. They are also great at "printing" complex items that cannot be manufactured through other means. The thing is, they are not fast enough to compete with other production methods. A plastic injection mold can make hundreds of bottle caps a minute. If you wanted to make say, 100 bottle caps, a 3D printer would be great. If you wanted to make 1,000,000 bottle cap, you would definitely want to build the mold and make them via traditional methods.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,241 posts, read 6,236,206 times
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Here's another related article. I watched New York Times writer Friedman interviewed on MSNBC's Morning Joe this morning. He said that good-paying middle class jobs will be dependent on strong math and science knowledge related to a technological world. In regard to concern about stress imposed on children he said that stress (for US children) will be not understanding the thick Chinese accent of your first boss.

Can
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,719 posts, read 29,500,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlaker View Post
It's people named Reagan and Romney. It's people named Bush and Rove and Weyrich and Norquist. It's people named Koch and Coors and Scaife and Bradley and Olin and Walton. These are the people who are killing and paying for the killing of America.
Such a simple and convenient explanation.

Steve Jobs is just as guilty of seeking cheaper labor as anyone else. If unions hadn't been protected for so long they would be better positioned to compete in a global economy.

The endless push for education is the fault of leftists - who think any college education is good, even if you borrow lots of money and end up with a sociology degree and working as a barista. Instead they should have pushed not for college but vocational - which is the right choice for many.

Last edited by hoffdano; 12-13-2013 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 83,196,319 times
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The definition of "free market" is one in which owners of assets are free to regard their potential labor force as a Renewable Resource, like timber or potatoes or codfish. They are not human beings who possess lives and spirits and dignity, they are simply resources. (Most states just come right out and call their employment offices "Department of Human Resources", not even bothering to employ a euphemism.)

The human resources of America are drifting closer and closer to an analogy with Blood Diamonds.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-13-2013 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:53 AM
 
1,614 posts, read 1,984,246 times
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So people can work less, and enjoy life more?

Sounds fine with me, except that we have arbitrarily decided that everyone should work 40+ hours a week. There's no good reason for that.
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:50 AM
 
48,504 posts, read 93,353,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlaker View Post
It's really very simple. Real per capita GDP continues to climb. That's the pie. The only questions are with regard to how the pie is going to be parcelled out. If you insist on giving almost all the pie to just a handful of people, then no matter how big the pie might get, it still won't be enough to go around. That's the problem. Here are some pictures of it...


Wealth distribution In America - YouTube
Human's have always needed to make part of that pie to survive and have been willing to take risk and work hard to do so. Since wealth sharing started in the Mid 60's many have just hungout in life more and more believing they can do it thru wealth sharing which they see has some right of birth. This isn't true in all countries or among even all Americans and other westerners. What they have found is that no matter the amount the bottom is always the bottom.
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