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Old 12-12-2013, 12:28 PM
 
663 posts, read 682,710 times
Reputation: 498

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Pretty good article:
American Manufacturing Profits Are the Same As In 1960


Here is the summary:

-Basically he says that manufacturing profits from 1960s compared to today is about the same (in real dollars)

-Other industries have blossomed (tech, internet, etc) so it seems like we lost our manufacturing jobs....when we really didn't.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:45 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
26,190 posts, read 34,761,939 times
Reputation: 54803
Profits and jobs are not the same thing. Much manufacturing in the USA has gone automated. Same production, fewer workers.

Between the workers themselves, the unions, and the government adding new expenses for employing a worker, American workers have priced themselves out of the market( in some fields, not all fields).
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:55 PM
 
3,497 posts, read 3,241,834 times
Reputation: 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by techcrium View Post
Pretty good article:
American Manufacturing Profits Are the Same As In 1960


Here is the summary:

-Basically he says that manufacturing profits from 1960s compared to today is about the same (in real dollars)

-Other industries have blossomed (tech, internet, etc) so it seems like we lost our manufacturing jobs....when we really didn't.
You didn't read it close enough, he's pointing out the structural change caused by technology which enables profits (same or greater output) without the same levels of labor hours. Your thread should be more aptly titled "manufacturing jobs are evaporating even though manufacturing profits have remained about the same adjusted in real dollars since 1960 and not coming back".

Also, one thing he fails to point out is that PROFITS, in real terms, do not necessarily equate to 'OUTPUT', in real terms, since, the goal of most corporate business models are to continually achieve greater marginal unit profit. They do this by exploiting asymmetry of information and wielding undo influence on the political legislative landscape - to create barriers to real competition. There is no 'Free Market' except in businesses with low barriers to entry and little to no legislative restrictive purview.

If businesses can not attain the 'marginal unit profit' they desire for their estimated fixed costs, plus the risk of engaging in said business, they will, in turn, relocate to where they can (3rd world countries) or simply abandon that particular business unit.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:02 PM
 
489 posts, read 515,388 times
Reputation: 844
The most important points the author makes is that manufacturing is no longer labor intensive and that there is nothing that politicians can do to bring manufacturing jobs back. The sooner people stop blaming the boogey man, the sooner they can start moving forward and find solutions...
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
9,337 posts, read 7,826,009 times
Reputation: 10170
The 'unions' are the least of the problem. Strong dollar policy is the real problem. As america we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than paying people 10 bucks an hour for blue collar manufacturing work but the fact is with a strong currency it's cheaper to make the product in china. Companies just can't afford too or don't want to pay $15-20 per hour for manufacturing anymore.

But it was not the unions... in fact outsourcing largely happened during the era when tax rates were lower than ever, when the strong dollar policy in fact started, in the 80's.... outsourcing continues to this day. From thermos containers to road bikes, almost everything has left for China or Taiwan.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:16 PM
 
12,802 posts, read 16,509,448 times
Reputation: 8828
I see many flaws with this report. First of all, the profits from manufacturing barely beat inflation. But GDP, adjusted for inflation, quintupled.US Real GDP by Year. Manufacturing profits showed almost no growth. Second, if automation was the issue, products would still be made in the USA, just not with as many workers. In 1960, radios, most clothing, and power tools were US made. Manufacturing may not be dead, but it is the turtle in a racehorse economy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:27 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 9,211,290 times
Reputation: 3441
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
The 'unions' are the least of the problem. Strong dollar policy is the real problem. As america we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than paying people 10 bucks an hour for blue collar manufacturing work but the fact is with a strong currency it's cheaper to make the product in china. Companies just can't afford too or don't want to pay $15-20 per hour for manufacturing anymore.

But it was not the unions... in fact outsourcing largely happened during the era when tax rates were lower than ever, when the strong dollar policy in fact started, in the 80's.... outsourcing continues to this day. From thermos containers to road bikes, almost everything has left for China or Taiwan.
What 'strong dollar policy'?

Weak Dollar Policy and Inflation
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/opinion/08wed1.html
Bush's Worrisome Weak-Dollar Policy - Businessweek

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Old 12-13-2013, 11:05 AM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,580,864 times
Reputation: 7473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuero View Post
The most important points the author makes is that manufacturing is no longer labor intensive and that there is nothing that politicians can do to bring manufacturing jobs back. The sooner people stop blaming the boogey man, the sooner they can start moving forward and find solutions...
Actually there is.

They're called tariffs.

China uses them on US goods imported.

US doesn't use them on Chinese goods imported.

US bends over for China regularly.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
16,346 posts, read 18,310,666 times
Reputation: 14520
Quote:
Originally Posted by techcrium View Post
Pretty good article:
American Manufacturing Profits Are the Same As In 1960


Here is the summary:

-Basically he says that manufacturing profits from 1960s compared to today is about the same (in real dollars)

-Other industries have blossomed (tech, internet, etc) so it seems like we lost our manufacturing jobs....when we really didn't.
You have to be completely ignorant of how the world works to think manufacturing profits are the same thing as manufacturing jobs.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
16,346 posts, read 18,310,666 times
Reputation: 14520
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Actually there is.

They're called tariffs.

China uses them on US goods imported.

US doesn't use them on Chinese goods imported.

US bends over for China regularly.
You mean like the Chinese tires that had a tariff slapped on them that just made it so we pay more for Korean-made tires than Chinese ones? In general, yeah, but the reality is slapping tariffs on China won't really bring a lot of those jobs back here. It'll just hurt the US economy while benefiting some other country like Korea.
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