Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ridiculous. I know computer programmers with college degrees who make $15/hr (granted, they are entry level jobs, but still).
If minimum wage gets set to $15/hr, it will cause massive wage inflation and massive unemployment. You know how India and China are getting all of our jobs because the cost of labor over there is so cheap? Expect that trend to greatly accelerate. As someone in the software industry, I'm already dealing with wages stagnating, or even decreasing (as in the case of web development with PHP especially), due to competition with overseas developers. If wages in the US go up even further, it will start to become impossible for American software developers with little experience to find entry level jobs, because all those jobs will be overseas. And then when none of the younger people can get into the software industry because they can't even get an entry level job, there will start to become few experienced developers left, and then companies will turn to overseas devs to fill that hole as well.
You can survive on minimum wage at 30-40 hours a week easily (I know many people who survive on minimum wage at 20 hours a week), but your quality of life won't be very high (then again, for most of the population of the world, it isn't very high). You just have to live like most people in the world - live in multigenerational housing - aka live with your family, or even live with a lot of room mates. You may or may not be able to afford a vehicle.
If you share an apartment or rent a room (even sharing a room) in a house (renting a room in a house seems to be cheaper), you can get your monthly rent (which includes utilities) down to $200-400 per month (unless you live in a really high cost of living area). Use public transportation/carpooling and walk everywhere, and you don't have to mess with car payments, car insurance, car repairs, state inspections/registration fees, etc. It's pretty simple to survive on less than $100 per month in grocery bills as well (rice and beans is nutritious and cheap). Now when it comes to health care, you're probably screwed, but we will see. If you are a single parent with a minimum wage job, your only option is to either work all the time or live with family for no rent or very little rent.
Sharing an apartment used to be a very good idea. Then apartment owners realized they could charge more for the extra person/people. Each one who moved in caused the rent to increase.
Same with pets. Used to be apartment owners forbade pets. Then they realized these pets would bring in extra rent. And what they charge is horrendous. Several hundred dollars in some cases. I recently moved from a place that was charging a neighbor $250 per cat. She had two. That is $250 a month. Plus there was a special pet deposit in case of damage.
Improve the house? My father offered to build an extra room onto a house he was renting and do it at his own expense. The owner gave his permission. Dad built the room. Dad was a good carpenter. So, his skills were valuable. As soon as he finished, the owner raised the rent. Why? "You have an extra room now."
In other words, when dealing with the business world, you really can't win.
McDonald's is using kiosks in Europe.
Applebee's is installing pads at each table so customers can order drinks, desserts and pay their bill. They said the main meal will still be ordered via a waiter/waitress but how long will they keep that if the software ordering proves acceptable with customers ?
Chains pre kiosk have both waitstaff and table cleaners. I would bet, knowing how capital payback calculations/decisions are made, either the waitstaff or the cleaning staff remain, but not both, in the post kiosk era.
Chains pre kiosk have both waitstaff and table cleaners. I would bet, knowing how capital payback calculations/decisions are made, either the waitstaff or the cleaning staff remain, but not both, in the post kiosk era.
Hmm, that will mean that the remaining worker will be more productive. More productivity = more value to their employer. Since by your logic, they are capable of doing the job of two burger flippers, they really could be work close to $15/hr. Maybe we will live in an age where formerly welfare dependent workers can pay their own way in this world, something any true conservative would love to see
The fast food industry today contributes nothing to the economy. As a matter of fact, it's a net loss. If the fast food giants were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no effect whatsoever, although the nation's obese might shed a tear or two.
Hmm, that will mean that the remaining worker will be more productive. More productivity = more value to their employer
No the worker is not more productive, the kiosk did it, so the wages of those left would go up 2 or 3% annually, while the savings pays off the cost of the tablets, than properly rewards management for having the forsight to invest, increasing operating profits long-term.
I have a feeling that those who disapprove have never worked at such jobs. $7.50 an hour - .............................. $1200 a month. .........................If you have a family to support.
Yes, I have indeed worked for minimum wage. I have even worked for McDonald's itself and for a lot less than $7.50 an hour.
If there is a family to support that means two workers and that comes to $2400 a month income. Not luxury, but a family can survive on it.
But those jobs are not used that way. Families here have one spouse working for better money and the stay at home spouse goes out for the noon rush, while the kids are in school, and earns their $30 a day, 5 days a week, that helps to contribute to the family income without causing child care expenses. Or they wait until other spousal unit comes home from work and they go and put in a couple of hours for the evening rush while their spouse tends the kids.
I see groups of young people, all with minimum wage jobs forming roommate groups. With 3-4 people splitting the rent and utilities, they do just fine. They get to slack off in the work force, go snowboarding and partying and then they grow up, get a better paid job, and start to behave like adults when they realize they can't continue to party their life away.
No the worker is not more productive, the kiosk did it, so the wages of those left would go up 2 or 3% annually, while the savings pays off the cost of the tablets, than properly rewards management for having the forsight to invest, increasing operating profits long-term.
Nope, you said it yourself... The worker would be just as productive as the two previous workers. I love the idea of fast food workers not being dependent on my tax dollars, so this is great news
On the other hand, if you enjoy a tax dollar dependent underclass who relies on the forced generosity of the dwindling middle class, I can understand how this future would be a bit frustrating...
Actually, Andrew, if you understood business, you'd know the worker is likely worth less than before, since the labor supply is the same as before, but demand went down by 50%.
Hopefully, the folks doing these jobs go on to better things up the road.
Perhaps it would just have been more simple to state like so. It seems that unless stated otherwise, that a post is to have an agenda rather than the statement of consequences.
The consequences of minimum wage increases have no implicit market impact. They only have financial consequences. Any market negotiable transaction will be renegotiated to the new nominal rate. Only fixed nominal financial instruments like mortgages , contracts and the like will be impacted in a longer run. Thus a house will go up in price because it is a market price. The fixed mortgage on the other hand will only retain the nominal amount.
So obviously the policy will be supported by those who do not understand that the market cannot be influenced by nominal rates or those looking to reduce the debt overhang.
So when ever anyone decides to laugh, do you know which one you are dealing with?
You can live on $7.50 an hour as long as you are frugal and single, which is exactly the demographic that minimum wage jobs are meant for. You won't live in luxury, you probably won't have more than a roof over your head (probably with a roommate), basic utilities, and groceries, but it is possible.
Not in Southern California, Western Washington, most of Texas, or most of Nevada, it isn't.
Now, if you don't mind living in a city/state constantly battered by floods, hurricanes, and ridiculous snow...then yes, it's doable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
What happens if everyone gets a degree? You pretty much only need a pulse to get a degree nowadays.
Negative. Knowledge is still required. If you can't pass tests and show competency at the very least you're not getting anywhere. Financially it might be easy, but you still need the knowledge. The point the other poster is making is, the value of a degree is about the type of degree compared to the work you expect to do, not just having a degree for the hell of it. That's why it's better to get into the workforce, figure out what you want to do, THEN select a degree program to cap off your experience so that it's directly relevant to your job.
I'd add that a lot of people lack diversity. For that I blame our ****-poor education system which would rather teach you about Greek mythology than how to survive in "the real world".
I started in a web development/support role fresh out of high school at $8/hour during a time when the minimum wage was around $6/hour. I was making more than my peers, one of which a Blockbuster manager. Went from that to various customer service jobs, Pacific Bell (now AT&T), Cox Communications, Sprint PCS (this is before they dropped the PCS marketing), credit agency, and then a student loan company. So in just customer service I'd acquired knowledge in real estate, sales, financial and audit, telecommunications, warehouse, retail, computer hardware, computer software, development, and network technologies. Got a project work job at a translation company, gave me project management and business analysis experience. I settled into IT, began gathering certifications to validate my experience, and now I'll have an IT bachelor's degree before year's end. I may not stay in IT long term as there are other things I'd like to do. I may go for my auditor certification, or just go back to writing books. Either way I have choices now; I make more than my parents, one of which works in medical and has a nursing degree, the other retired military that works in security. It took nearly 18 years to get this far. I made plenty of mistakes. But I don't regret the experiences.
I've never worked part time, but I had one minimum wage job: Staples, 1998, when I got cut from a job and needed something else for the time being. Quit after 2 weeks because it wasn't worth what they were paying me: $6/hour to lift 200lb desks down from 12-foot-up scaffolds, me being 150lbs soaking wet at the time, my stronger coworkers standing around chatting about football? Nuh-uh. That's a job that deserves higher than minimum wage because not everyone can do it.
The point is, I took whatever job was available at first, then went from job to job doing the same basic task, but in different industries, and worked my way up from there. It's a bit troubling that the young folks nowadays simply want $15/hour because they feel entitled, rather than being willing to bust their tail for it like some from my generation and prior.
Now, that said, I've always felt that the answer is not to fix minimum wage. The answer is to stop applying wages as static dollar amounts and instead create a labor metric that applies a percentage against inflation; that ensures that wages are always adjusted properly, and without a person having to risk their job to get a raise and without having to raise a nationwide stink about minimum wage. But we're not there and likely never will be.
Negative. Knowledge is still required. If you can't pass tests and show competency at the very least you're not getting anywhere. Financially it might be easy, but you still need the knowledge. The point the other poster is making is, the value of a degree is about the type of degree compared to the work you expect to do, not just having a degree for the hell of it. That's why it's better to get into the workforce, figure out what you want to do, THEN select a degree program to cap off your experience so that it's directly relevant to your job
My college experience tells me that if you just want a degree - you need very little knowledge. To me passing a test does not equal knowledge. I consider myself below average and there were people in my classes functioning well below me. The standard classified as an A is a joke in my opinion. I had a 4.0 and I remember NOTHING from college. Difficulty of course depends on the school, but if a degree is desired if can be had with little effort.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's a job that deserves higher than minimum wage because not everyone can do it.
