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That's how it is in the vast majority of the world. We are one of the few countries that actually spend so much time and resources on the poor. In most places the poor are walled off and left to starve and die of diseases.
Scary world we live in, huh? But the GNP remains out there for overall economy. One country that actually attempts to take care of its population and nourish all is Norway. recent article indicates in theory, all Norwegians are millionaires if one were to divide the national trust among them. Apparently, the government put aside the windfall profits of oil in the trust. (way too simple an explanation, I know). What I do know is any Norwegian citizen who wants an education it is absolutely FREE for them. The money comes from the trust. Health care is pretty much free as well. I definitely believe there have to be problems but nobody considers Norway third world.
back to the discussion, it is about unskilled (or no profitable skills) and our approaches to putting those skills to work. I am a college grad but once had an employer tell me not to bother with more education because I would want more money and he didn't want to pay me more and didn't want me to leave.
No minimum wage and less public assistance? Have ya'll read up on the French Revolution? I'd do so now if you're thinking this is a good or even viable idea...
How low could wages go. Looking at the history of man just consider slavery and prison wages. People complain about the Gov. But just consider what man is capable without laws.
Depends what the perks are. If the fast food industry provided transportation, food and housing they could practically have there very own slave plantation.
Doncha reckon that after a certain point service or workmanship would become so poor that the business would die? Around here the better fast food places pay more than the minimum wage.
You're never going to get to do the true Malthus/Social Darwinism experiment in this country and find the actual point at which workers start stringing CEOs up from the lamp posts in the parking lot. Even ostensible freemarketeers like Marco Rubio are in favor of wage subsidies, as long as they're administered at state level, where bought politicians and the cronies of local big employers can dole them out. This country will never return to a Gilded Age economic structure.
Well, the entire minimum wage argument is a bit of a canard, for it supposes that there are armies of workers out there who are being paid minimum wage to begin with.
The truth of the matter is that, according to the latest from the BLS, roughly 4.7% of all workers are paid minimum wage, and 50% of those being paid minimum wage are 25 and under. Only 3% of all workers over 25 earn minimum wage, and only 2% of full-time workers do. 60% of minimum wage workers are in food service where the lion's share of income earned by workers comes from tips, not wages. Mind you, those are 2012 statistics. I pretty much guarantee that the 2013 numbers are going to be even lower.
So, despite all the shrill outrage, minimum wage workers are mostly either young people just entering the workforce or people who wait tables and get extra cash in the form of tips. What's more, as someone who has done a great deal on the periphery of the fast food industry, I know that halfway motivated workers are identified and given training. With it, they get higher wages.
And for the unskilled workers, there are a host of government programs available right now to provide people with job training, skills training, and a host of other things to make one more valuable to an employer. So I'm just not really worried about the supposed Minimum Wage Crisis in this country, chiefly because it really doesn't exist.
I'd move to South Florida and be a begger before working for anything under the current minimum wage. Even the current minimum wage is iffy for pay... I want at least 10 bucks an hour. As a single male, that's what I value my time at. More likely I'd simply drive to whatever part of the country I can find to get a job that meets my wage requirements.
Where are all these applicants at??? I have a FF restaurant and we are lucky if we get 5 applicants a week. And luckier if more than 1 is worth hiring. The rest don't return calls, don't show up for interviews, don't show up for the first day.
I do pay minimum wage starting. Because we make sandwiches. It's not rocket science. And it's not skill or labor intensive. It's a starting out job. And if you're good at your job, customer oriented, and reliable, you get raises. And potential for advancement.
It they eliminated minimum wage I'd still have to pay a level to draw employees away from other businesses.
For example at a company I worked for we started our entry-level manufacturing at the minimum wage at the time. But unemployment was very low and we had trouble finding employees. So we ended up raising the starting wage nearly $2 over a year and a half. Which worked. Except it created a ripple effect with the existing staff who had been hired in at lower wages, and potentially had "earned" that higher wage.
Another example was our plant outside Tulsa. We paid the same starting pay as McDonald's. One of the guys who worked on the line at a higher wage tried to recruit his son from McD's. Who declined. Because the pay was the same, but he got to work in air conditioning, got a free/reduced meal, and... got to "meet chicks."
Lets say they eliminated the minimum wage and employers could pay anything they wanted.
Massive thread fail.
Employers cannot pay whatever they freaking want in wages just as you cannot pay whatever you freaking want for goods or services.
The Laws of Economics via Supply & Demand determines the prices of everything, as in every thing, as in every single thing, including the price of your labor, land, interest rates, the prices of corn, oil, soy beans, gold, vomit, urine, wine, beer, cotton, linen, flaxen, wool, the price of repair for plumbing, cars, electronics, computers, the cost of healthcare services...everything.
If employers could pay whatever they freaking wanted to pay, then every American would be getting paid the "federal" minimum wage, or the minimum wage set by a State.
...except that isn't the case, is it? No, it isn't.
Why?
Because an employer has no say in the matter.
It isn't up to the employer, it is up to the Market...it is the Market that decides wages, not employers.
There are 1,539 separate economies in the united States.
In one of those 1,539 separate economies, namely the Cincinnati MSA, a fast-food worker starts at $9-$10/hour with pay raises at 6 mos/12 mos.
Why? Because the Market says so, that's why.
Warehouse workers start at $7.25/hour.
Why? Because the Market says so, that's why.
Now, is this the case in all 1,539 separate economies in the US? No, who would be so daft as to think that might even possibly be the case?
In Mesa, Arizona, fast-food and warehouse workers might both be paid $7.25/hour.
In Charleston, South Carolina, fast-food workers might get paid $7.25/hour while warehouse workers start at $10/hour.
In White Plains, New Jersey, fast-food and warehouse workers might both start $10/hour.
It is entirely depending upon the Market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PortCharlotteNewbie
One country that actually attempts to take care of its population and nourish all is Norway.
Country?
Don't you mean county?
Tell us what what Cook County, Illinois have that Norway doesn't have.....
Spoiler
200,000 more people.....there's only 5 Million people in Norway. Wanna make comparisons? Then find a State that has a population of 315 Million...you know, like the US does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krawhitham
No minimum wage and less public assistance? Have ya'll read up on the French Revolution? I'd do so now if you're thinking this is a good or even viable idea...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caltovegas
How low could wages go. Looking at the history of man just consider slavery and prison wages. People complain about the Gov. But just consider what man is capable without laws.
Y'all need to take off your tin-foil hats and get right with reality.
Economically...
The market wage is affected by the other low skilled poorly educated workers who are making close to minimum wage.
And while there are not many people actually working for the exact dollar amount of the minimum wage, there are a large number of people working for wages between $7.25 and $10.00 an hour, and would be greatly impacted if the minimum wage went up to $10 an hour, which is being suggested by President Obama.
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