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A better way of helping truly poor people is to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit. This is basically a transfer from the government for low wage earners. That way, it helps out the truly poor. Just raising the minimum wage often ends up subsidizing a fair number of middle class earners who are just working for a 2nd, supplemental income.
I'm not a big fan of government transfer programs, but I'd rather help people out who are working rather than giving them money just for having kids out of wedlock.
With all the talk about raising the minimum wage, I think the real issue is that people are not getting a liveable wage anymore.
Define "liveable wage" objectively in no uncertain terms.
Explain how a "liveable wage" is in harmony with the Laws of Economics.
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Originally Posted by SAAN
$11hr gets you about $1250 a month after taxes and health coverage at most jobs and ill list just the basic necessities in life
600 Rent >>> get a room-mate and cut that in half, or get two room-mates to reduce it to $200..you save $400...as a reminder, you are not entitled to your own personal private living space.
100 Utilities >>> get a room-mate and cut that in half, or get two room-mates to reduce it to $35..you save $65...as a reminder, you are not entitled to your own personal private utilities, nor are you entitled to a certain amount of kilowatt hours.
Note that at this point you have an extra $465 in your pocket.
200 Car Payment >>> get a cheaper vehicle or buy a used vehicle, or use public transportation. As a reminder, you are not entitled to a vehicle of any kind.
150 Gas >>> use public mass transit, car-pool or find alternative transportation. As a reminder, you are not entitled to your own personal private gasoline supply.
125 Insurance >>> a used vehicle will eliminate the need for full-coverage insurance and reduce your costs.
220 Food >>> buy cheaper cuts of meat and less processed foods. As a reminder, you are not entitled to eat meat 3 meals a day seven days per week.
50 Cell Phone >>> get a land-line for $16/month...as a reminder, you are not entitled to wireless services, which are luxuries.
Note that at this point your savings are in excess of $600/month
40 Internet >>> Internet is optional, not a requirement......share living accommodations and you can gut your internet costs by 50% to 67%.
20 Home Alarm System or Gym membership >>> those are optional...as a reminder, you are not entitled to either.
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Originally Posted by yowps3
Australia is a country that offers a livable wage.
Then why are you here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3
USA is a disgrace to humanity.
This is the Economics Forum.
The Forum for Emotionally-Unstable-People-Who-Whine-Incessantly-About-Things-They-Don't-Understand is here....
You do need a phone to keep in contact with people and we as a society live online now, so while its not a 100% mus,t having internet at home is a basic need now.
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Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
I beg to differ in a digital age.
No, wrong answer. If you cannot afford internet, that's just a damn shame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
Lots of people live in towns with no public transportation still.
Well, what would Neanderthal do?
Sob...I don't have a car to get from the caves to the hunting grounds...what do I do...government help me.....sob...I'm pathetic....somebody give us the Affordable Car Act and make everything better.
Move to within walking, biking distance of your job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
IMO: A lot of people don't really understand how little they're being paid due to failing to take into account what inflation has done to their buying power.
Cell phone and internet are not basic necessities. Car payment and gas are also not necessities; lots of people live in towns with decent public transportation.
Funny what people deem "necessities".
In the year 2014, where a majority of people are still expected to drive (using a car) to work, where cell phones are essential in cases of emergencies or just plain getting stuck or stranded out there remote somewhere, and where an Internet connection is one of the most common ways to network for and find viable employment opportunities, how are cars, cell phones, gasoline, and the Internet not basic necessities?
Sure, maybe in the year 1914, all of the above were still luxuries and not necessities (especially since several of these technologies had not yet been invented, and others were afforded only to the wealthy), but saying they are not essential in 2014 is a bit of a stretch, in MHO.
In the year 2014, where a majority of people are still expected to drive (using a car) to work, where cell phones are essential in cases of emergencies or just plain getting stuck or stranded out there remote somewhere, and where an Internet connection is one of the most common ways to network for and find viable employment opportunities, how are cars, cell phones, gasoline, and the Internet not basic necessities?
Sure, maybe in the year 1914, all of the above were still luxuries and not necessities (especially since several of these technologies had not yet been invented, and others were afforded only to the wealthy), but saying they are not essential in 2014 is a bit of a stretch, in MHO.
Even if you decide you HAVE to have these things, there are still ways to cut down on those costs. One way, as listed above, was to get a roommate. Nobody here has supported the claim that you are entitled to your own apartment, so there's your utilities and internet cut in half right there. Or there are prepaid phone plans - T-Mobile has one that gives you unlimited web & text with 100 mins for $30 (for what it's worth, I agree that it is a good idea to have a cell phone if you run into problems when you are out - after all, it's not like pay phones are in abundance anymore. HOWEVER, this doesn't necessitate a smart phone - I still think those are a luxury.) You could also save money on gas by carpooling.
A livable wage circa the 1950's - 1970's or thereabouts is simply not comparable to what is considered to be a living wage today...I think that some people may perhaps be missing this point?
From the 1950's - 1970's, a family with a single income earner could much more easily have a quality of life and standard of living that was higher than and not the same as even a two-income household today. Back then, a family could buy basic goods, buy a home with much more real purchasing power than the prices that home buyers face today, and gasoline was much less expensive, back then. For example, in the area where I live in D.C., I know of a house that was worth about $20,000 in 1950's - 1970's dollars, that is worth about $750,000+ today, in 2014. The combined inflation and deflation of the dollar in the decades after the 70's decreased the actual, inflation-adjusted earning power of the dollar over 90%. Many people are therefore hurting economically through no fault of their own...the many "I've got mine, who cares if you've got yours?" and lack of basic human compassion positions that some people have towards their fellow, less-fortunate and less-well off peers is really quite shocking, to me But put simply, the average person's standard of living was higher in the past, than it is today...and that is profoundly unjust, to today's generation.
FWIW, one could also put forth the position that there is no universally-recognized or absolute law that I know of that says that the Laws of Economics trump or are more important than the concept of Natural Law. I think they are both important, and both have their place, in society.
Australia is a country that offers a livable wage.
$17/Hr is what I call reasonable.
The disparity between CEOs, CFOs, the board etc is still huge. But the lower end workers are at least being paid a wage that carries some dignity.
USA is a disgrace to humanity.
In Australia, who pays the wage? Are employees that much more productive in Australia? Or are companies required to pay workers more than the value of what the workers produce? If the latter, how do the companies make any money?
If the USA is a disgrace to humanity, why do a very large number people in the rest of the world want to immigrate here?
In Australia, who pays the wage? Are employees that much more productive in Australia? Or are companies required to pay workers more than the value of what the workers produce? If the latter, how do the companies make any money?
If the USA is a disgrace to humanity, why do a very large number people in the rest of the world want to immigrate here?
Look. Instead of making trillions in profit. A company is still doing good making half a trillion.
The key to a livable wage is basically to reject the global economies and reject the free trade agreements of these Government who get into these agreement and then undercut the workers of their own countries ... So Governments must stop all free trade with countries which do not have the similar economic cost of living and then put exercise tax of products entering the nation to bring up the price for foreign goods coming in a lower cost ..... See it is today an investors world and the workers are being undercut and out sourced out of work....... Need to go back thirty years and have exercise tax on all products then the investors will produce good in the country so workers will have better jobs ... See investors will produce good in the country which they sell as long as there is a market in the country
Cell phone and internet are not basic necessities. Car payment and gas are also not necessities; lots of people live in towns with decent public transportation.
Funny what people deem "necessities".
The city mentality where every poor slob should just take the bus. Like the bus runs on your work schedule if you happen to live within walking distance of a bus line.
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