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With education, the child from a prosperous area has an advantage if he has parents who are actively engaged in his education. But that is also true of the child from the poverty area. Not all low income parents are slackers. For proof, look at the poverty lives of recent immigrants who raise their children to be doctors and other well paid professionals.
I really hate this trope about how "if immigrants can do it, anyone else can."
The one thing this doesn't take into account, is that the immigrant who leaves their country and embarks on a journey to start over somewhere else has already demonstrated that he (or she) is not average.
The type of person who does this is more motivated than average. They realized that they don't have opportunity at home, and decided to pick up and do something about it. Clearly, they didn't have privilege at home or they wouldn't need to leave. And they had enough privilege (many immigrant families are fairly well-to-do at home, they just hit a ceiling) or exceptional motivation to get out.
The regular Joes (or Juans or Tans or Karthiks or Kims or whatever) are staying home. They aren't leaving to trying to leave. They don't have the exceptional motivation or drive to uproot their lives and move halfway across the world. We get a pretty self-selecting bunch here in the US.
A society where you need to be exceptional to succeed isn't one with much social mobility.
I really hate this trope about how "if immigrants can do it, anyone else can."
The one thing this doesn't take into account, is that the immigrant who leaves their country and embarks on a journey to start over somewhere else has already demonstrated that he (or she) is not average.
The type of person who does this is more motivated than average. They realized that they don't have opportunity at home, and decided to pick up and do something about it. Clearly, they didn't have privilege at home or they wouldn't need to leave. And they had enough privilege (many immigrant families are fairly well-to-do at home, they just hit a ceiling) or exceptional motivation to get out.
The regular Joes (or Juans or Tans or Karthiks or Kims or whatever) are staying home. They aren't leaving to trying to leave. They don't have the exceptional motivation or drive to uproot their lives and move halfway across the world. We get a pretty self-selecting bunch here in the US.
A society where you need to be exceptional to succeed isn't one with much social mobility.
Tell me how exceptional you need to be to finish high school and get a job blue collar job.?
Tell me how exceptional you need to be to finish high school and get a job blue collar job.?
Do you know any high schools that help push people towards blue collar jobs, because most schools are trying to get everyone to college. Construction jobs? Those have been on the decline for a while. We've got a pretty thriving day laborer market place and those jobs don't actually pay enough to do anything in my high cost region.
I really hate this trope about how "if immigrants can do it, anyone else can."
The one thing this doesn't take into account, is that the immigrant who leaves their country and embarks on a journey to start over somewhere else has already demonstrated that he (or she) is not average.
The type of person who does this is more motivated than average. They realized that they don't have opportunity at home, and decided to pick up and do something about it. Clearly, they didn't have privilege at home or they wouldn't need to leave. And they had enough privilege (many immigrant families are fairly well-to-do at home, they just hit a ceiling) or exceptional motivation to get out.
The regular Joes (or Juans or Tans or Karthiks or Kims or whatever) are staying home. They aren't leaving to trying to leave. They don't have the exceptional motivation or drive to uproot their lives and move halfway across the world. We get a pretty self-selecting bunch here in the US.
A society where you need to be exceptional to succeed isn't one with much social mobility.
So what does this say about Americans that live in poverty? We have immigrants with little education so to speak, leave their country with mostly the shirts on their backs. Travel hundreds or thousands of miles to look for work. Live in sometimes horrible conditions while working hard blue collar jobs. Plus most don't even speak the local language or are able to drive a car. While we have Americans in so called poverty. Not willing to leave their own neighborhood to search for work. Have free education provided for them. Most speak the language for the most part. Yet just can't seem to finish school or find a blue collar job.
Here's a news flash for some.. You can't escape poverty if you don't get a job.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
Do you know any high schools that help push people towards blue collar jobs, because most schools are trying to get everyone to college. Construction jobs? Those have been on the decline for a while. We've got a pretty thriving day laborer market place and those jobs don't actually pay enough to do anything in my high cost region.
The local schools have a great positive effect on real estate values, and people consider test scores as less important than the placement rate of the graduates to 4 year colleges. High School websites sometimes even advertise the percentage of graduates going to college, or even how many have gotten scholarships, and list the colleges they went to. Such as this from one of our local High Schools:
XXXXXXXX offers academic programs to prepare students for upper division and college level courses. 82% of 2012 graduates attended 4-year colleges and 14% attended 2-year colleges.
In this case, only 4% of graduates did not go on to college. We do have a nearby vocational school, which has 4,000 full-time students, so some people must be choosing that path.
No expert but IMO its like high school. Different groups with different ambitions tended to hangout together. Smart kids ;very serious about future hungout together and others who just hungout. There are always rich and poor in both types.
In my opinion, living in a poor area was intensely motivating to get out. I was determined to live in a wealthy area to get my children into one of the best school districts in the U.S. Now that we're here, I am still motivated to work hard...but that inner fire seems gone.
I really hate this trope about how "if immigrants can do it, anyone else can."
The one thing this doesn't take into account, is that the immigrant who leaves their country and embarks on a journey to start over somewhere else has already demonstrated that he (or she) is not average.
The type of person who does this is more motivated than average. They realized that they don't have opportunity at home, and decided to pick up and do something about it. Clearly, they didn't have privilege at home or they wouldn't need to leave. And they had enough privilege (many immigrant families are fairly well-to-do at home, they just hit a ceiling) or exceptional motivation to get out.
The regular Joes (or Juans or Tans or Karthiks or Kims or whatever) are staying home. They aren't leaving to trying to leave. They don't have the exceptional motivation or drive to uproot their lives and move halfway across the world. We get a pretty self-selecting bunch here in the US.
A society where you need to be exceptional to succeed isn't one with much social mobility.
Those that don't even try to get out of poverty are not being average. I'd give them an F for effort.
Living in a wealthy area and spending time around wealthy people will tend to push most to think and act as the wealthy do. Its an individual effort to fall short of the wealthy mindset here.
Living in a poor area and spending time around poor people will tend to push most to think and act as the poor do. Its an individual effort to rise above the poor mindset.
I live in a City with a large % of rich and poor people intermingling due to geographic reasons. There isnt a "rich" part of town in Jacksonville, theyre just all spread around the waterways so that they have waterfront property. Across the street from these waterways can be the most impoverished parts in the whole friggin State of Florida. My point is Ive interacted with the super poor and the super wealthy in my upbringing. Ive noticed exactly that the poor people I grew up with made "poor" decisions, and the wealthy or those that hung around the wealthy made wise decisions. I know a guy my age who was brilliant, but he came from a poor background. He consistently had little faith in his abilities and now works in a call center making about 10 bucks an hour. I also know stupid people who were well connected who are now dentists.
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