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Old 06-05-2014, 12:20 PM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,891,571 times
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There are a lot of people with "skills" working such jobs. Having a skilled trade does not automatically mean 100% employment. It largely depends on the economy and location. Most college degrees are useless apart from STEM majors like Comp Sci or engineering which are degrees which require a high IQ. Even then the jobs are limited with extreme competition. Low wage service sector jobs have largely replaced the manufacturing we once had.

We could give everyone an engineering degree and you will still have large amounts of people working low paying jobs.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:13 PM
Status: "I'm not MAGA, I'm an American!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Upstate
9,397 posts, read 9,678,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Plumbers, electricians and mechanics usually make more than 30k a year
These folks are called "skilled" labor. Most of them have some sort of training, thus deserve a higher pay. Also, many of them work more than 40 hours a week, thus a higher salary.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,849,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Plumbers, electricians and mechanics usually make more than 30k a year
You can double/triple that if the guy know what he's doing. A plumber will charge $50-$100 to show. You wallet is open if you want work done, especially an emergency.

If you take you hourly rate and double it...let's use $15 hr = 30...you can roughly estimate your yearly salary = $30K. You can do the same in reverse. One who gets $100K year is paid roughly $50 hr.
The real question is...what would you pay knowingly someone $50, $35, $25 hr to do for you around your home?

Think about it and you will realize your answer is "not much".
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:42 PM
 
6,597 posts, read 5,841,691 times
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A few thoughts.

In my opinion, the government should not be in the business of deciding how much money people should make. That should be a supply-and-demand thing.

"Burger flipping" as some contemptuously call it is hard work. Come on. Anyone in fast food is either working very hard or is out the next day. You can sit and stare into space in some office jobs, especially in government jobs, but not in the food industry.

$15 is not just $15. It's more than that. Employers must also pay 6.5% of social security.

An extra $6/hour can add up to thousands of dollars a week for a small business. For example, for a fast food franchise that's open 120 hours a week, with 4 people on staff at any given time, that adds up to $2880. Probably closer to $3200 actually. How on earth are they expected to magically pay for this? Does this law include a generous tax break to offset a generous pay increase?

What about all the people making $15 now? Do they all get bumped up to $20 or so, since suddenly they're making only minimum wage?

What happens if food prices go up, and the cost of dry cleaning and hotel maids and apple pickers and on and on? There's a ripple effect.

Seattle is coasting along on the shoulders of two giants: Microsoft and Boeing. These companies probably have very few min wage employees, perhaps some custodial and food service staff. The main effect they'll feel is that food, hotel and entertainment costs will rise in the city when business people visit.

The high school students who traditionally start out with min wage jobs will feel most of the pain. Black youth, in particular, will find it just that much harder. For one thing, the small companies will slow down or shrink their hiring, and people will hang on to their jobs, so less turnover. Low skills and entry level people will be hit hard.

I think encouraging economic growth is a better solution. In a growing economy, with lots of opportunities to start businesses without much barriers to entry, there's demand for jobs, such as during the boom years after WWII and during subsequent periods of prosperity like the mid-1960s, mid-1980s and late 1990s. When there's demand, pay will rise naturally and organically. Government intervention during a time of slow job growth will have unintended consequences.

But, poor understanding of economics has caused the average American not to think this way, so I guess we'll have to go through a few decades of unemployment and stagnation before people come to their senses.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:06 PM
 
26,154 posts, read 21,391,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04 View Post
These folks are called "skilled" labor. Most of them have some sort of training, thus deserve a higher pay. Also, many of them work more than 40 hours a week, thus a higher salary.


Most of those guys are hourly not salary but however you slice it their hourly rate is typically much higher than 15.00/hr
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:14 PM
 
34,258 posts, read 19,236,257 times
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Historically increases in minimum wage have not had noticeable impacts on inflation or unemployment. Why is it different now?
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:16 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,152 posts, read 80,258,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Historically increases in minimum wage have not had noticeable impacts on inflation or unemployment. Why is it different now?
Historical increases have not been anywhere near 62%.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:20 PM
 
26,154 posts, read 21,391,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Historical increases have not been anywhere near 62%.

So how bad was it when in 2007 it jumped from 5.15 to 5.85 to 6.55 in 2008 and then to 7.25 in 2009? That's 40.78% do you think the world would have cratered if it had gone up to 8.34 an hour or 62% from 5.15?
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:24 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 10,686,370 times
Reputation: 6606
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Well if real estate was allowed to fall to affordable rates then the cost of living would also fall and there would be no need for $15 an hour.

FRB: H.4.1 Release-- Factors Affecting Reserve Balances -- Thursday, May 29, 2014


Rigged
Mortgage-backed securities4 1,653,589
and rigged again....
Guaranteed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae. The current face value shown is the remaining principal balance of
the securities.
Why all the fuss about wage manipulation but not asset manipulation which is causing all the wage distortion in the first place?
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
WHAT PROPONENTS OF AN INCREASED MINIMUM WAGE WANT:
  • Gasoline, one gallon: $.25
  • Ground beef, one pound: $1
  • Lowfat milk, one gallon: $.75
  • Bread, one standard loaf: $.50
  • 2014 Honda Civic: $1500
  • Rent, 1000sq ft/2BR per month: $100
  • Minimum wage/hour (mandated 30hour week) $50
WHAT OPPONENTS OF AN INCREASED MINIMUM WAGE WANT:

  • Gasoline, one gallon: $12.75
  • Ground beef, one pound: $20
  • Lowfat milk, one gallon: $9.75
  • Bread, one standard loaf: $12.50
  • 2014 Honda Civic: $975,000
  • Rent, 1000sq ft/2BR per month: $3600
  • Minimum wage/hour (mandated 160 Hour week) $.25
In your example I would flip the words proponent and opponent around, and obviously rethink those numbers slightly, but as an example just use more or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnyc View Post
Prices are going up already mainly because of inflation, government regulation, taxes, etc...forcing companies to pay more for labor is not going to lower prices. What people don't seem to want to accept is that companies keep their wages as low in response to their customers demand for low prices. Shoppers by and large are simply not willing to pay higher prices just so that some stranger working the cash register can earn a "living wage".

Also, if the min wage of $15 an hour is so great, why force workers to wait 7 years? Why not have it effective immediately? Probably because the politicians know that the disastrous effects of such a sharp rise in labor costs would be too severe for their reelection goals. It's really designed to spread the unemployment increases out in such a way that it would either go largely unnoticed by the average voter or in a way that the unemployment increases doesn't take its toll until after the politicians are out of office.
Well said, agreed.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 7,409,736 times
Reputation: 3391
How come high CEO pay doesn't cause prices to increase?
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