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Even if state funded colleges are subsidized in some way for everyone who goes, why do poorer familys get the biggest break? Why do the middle class families seem to go more in debt?
because you're not looking at real data. the average student that graduates with debt still only graduates with 26,000 in loans. virtually no school charges the actual sticker price to anyone except for the students they didn't really want (so students who chose to go to a school even though they were offered little to no aid) or students of upper income families.
if you do your research, there are plenty of great schools out there that offer good value. students making poor decisions is no one's fault but the student and their parents.
I am very troll conscious but, I like this young person and don't think they are a troll. He has some good points. Some peoples posts really reflect a dismissive, close minded personality. I like the face value, thoughtful posts and am picking up some good information regarding college funding. With 4 grandkids looking at their immediate future educational and employment options, it is thought provoking.
The only point is on the top of this pansy's head!! I refuse to take seriously the ignorant ramblings of a spoiled affluent d-bag who goes off and rips on folks getting some help, when Mommy and Daddy are supporting him like they are!! EAsy to talk like a big man of the world when he was born with a silver spoon up his candy-ass. Why doesn;t he take his sterile dick down to some impoverished areas and really talk to the decent folks there trying to do the best they can, despite their environment-or better yet, take his candy-a** down to the poorest parts of some major cities and run his piehole like that!! He'd soil his lace undies that's for sure!!!!
Yep. The OP is just another believer in the Just World Fallacy who probably thinks he's an "entirely self-made man" and has it in for "those people." More idiotic stereotypes and mindless rage without a scrap of empathy or the slightest understanding of how the real world works. Pathetic, really...
Didn't bother reading most of nonsense replies. I agree with this. The OP is pouting and ranting how it's unfair for kids to go to school for free. Well, guess what OP? The world is NOT fair because you have parents who could AFFORD for you to go to college, put a roof on your head 24/7, and food on the table. If anything, kids who didn't have much and qualified for financial aid should be saying how it's unfair that you've had it MADE without even lifting a finger just simply for being born to parents who made good money. At least the kids that had financial aid had to go to school still, you're just piggy backing off mom/dad's hard work.
"piggy-backing off of mom/dad's hard work"? "at least the kids that had financial aid can go to school still"?
Where does the money come from so those kids can get the fin aid to go to college?
These kids get to go because some other people's hardworking parents' got taxed heavily, with the small amount of take home pay that they have left, they need to pay their own kids' school lunches, healthcare co-pay and any full-price items that their own insurance refuse to pay, food, college tuition at full-price.
In that sense, those hardworking families really got taxed again, and again.
What’s so proud for the kids who get the free federal funding (coming from taxing those hard working people), yet so shameful for the same people who then must also open their wallet to pay for their children’s full price college fees? If they’ve spent their last dime, and simply cannot afford more, their own children get to borrow money without any free federal fund.
Is that fair to the honest hard working families? This is akin to saying, sorry, HonestHardWorkingFamily child, as always your parents are mandated to fist help other people’s kids before considering you. Because they are bled dry by IRS, you are left to your own device.
"piggy-backing off of mom/dad's hard work"? "at least the kids that had financial aid can go to school still"?
Where does the money come from so those kids can get the fin aid to go to college?
These kids get to go because some other people's hardworking parents' got taxed heavily, with the small amount of take home pay that they have left, they need to pay their own kids' school lunches, healthcare co-pay and any full-price items that their own insurance refuse to pay, food, college tuition at full-price.
In that sense, those hardworking families really got taxed again, and again.
What’s so proud for the kids who get the free federal funding (coming from taxing those hard working people), yet so shameful for the same people who then must also open their wallet to pay for their children’s full price college fees? If they’ve spent their last dime, and simply cannot afford more, their own children get to borrow money without any free federal fund.
Is that fair to the honest hard working families? This is akin to saying, sorry, HonestHardWorkingFamily child, as always your parents are mandated to fist help other people’s kids before considering you. Because they are bled dry by IRS, you are left to your own device.
I'm sorry, are you saying the working poor aren't "honest hard working families"? That those who need more financial aid (and have little income to be taxed) are inherently opposite to this generic, cliched construct? Tons of people work hard and have little to show for it; the least we can do as a society (and not just some imaginary archipelago of these supposed "hard working families") is ensure that all children, regardless of unearned circumstance, have equal opportunity for education.
And I don't just mean Pell Grants and the other need-based aid that is the subject of OP's rants, but kindergarten on up. Even with financial aid, these students are generally much worse prepared and have fought much greater obstacles on the way to their college enrollment).
Last edited by kwhitegocubs; 06-11-2014 at 08:51 PM..
A few keys on my mac broke today ( w[i copy + paste to enter this letter] , delete , the number one etc ... ) so this will be the last response i make till it gets fixed. There will be punctuation mistakes etc.. but i could really care less, this is a forum not my english final.
Heres an article recently posted on college http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/10/pf/c...grads-parents/
Most of you are too ignorant to see why dropping financial aid helps. When you apply to college they tell you to file for financial aid if you're a low income family not "apply for loans or scholarships" those are to different
things. Dropping financial aid to the poor for COLLEGE tuition HAS to end up in a reduction of tuition. If you cut college aid then they need to drop the price of tuition so that poorer students can enter, because without students a college can't survive.
EX: Microsoft ONLY sold the XboxOne in a package (System & kinect) for $500 while Playstation sold it separately (System only $399, or Both $500). which system sold more? Playstation did since they reached the price point most people felt comfortable in. Now Microsoft is selling it separately since they didn't sell as much as playstation did since their price point was $500 and thats just the system & kinect no games. See what they did? they went down to the price point that more people can afford to meet demands so that they can generate more money on this item.
Cons:
- WHEN WE LOWER TUITION BY CUTTING GOVT FINANCIAL AID THEN THERE WOULD BE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF EMPLOYEES GETTING LAYED OFF TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LOSS OF STUDENTS ATTENDING. ( This will only happen if the students who were eligible for aid say to themselves "now the gov't won't help me, ********** ill go work somewhere and forget about college. )
Pros:
- THE ECONOMY TAKES A BOOST, MORE PEOPLE (students) WILL NOW HAVE TO WORK IF THEY WANT AN EDUCATION & NO COLLEGE EMPLOYEES WILL GET LAID OFF. The determined students will tell themselves
" Alright, the gov't won't help anymore i guess i gotta do this on my own now and maybe take out a few loans. If i really want to be successful in life i gotta do this on my own." Currently the jobs report shows that we generate 120k - 200k jobs every month. If dropping financial aid were to happen it would show a dramatic increase in jobs monthly since more people are determined to better their lives by getting a job to help pay for college tuition (just a hypothesis but its a good one. )
- Gov't can use the money for other things etc..
( Wrote all this in the original post )
YES MY PARENTS PAY FOR MY TUITION BUT EVEN IF THEY COULDN'T PAY IT I WOULD BE ABLE TO PAY WITHOUT A PROBLEM BECAUSE I WAS PREPARED . THEY CHOSE TO PAY FOR ME SO I CAN HAVE EVEN MORE MONEY SAVED. So your arguments saying "i have everything handed to me" is a joke. I worked hard for 2 years working part-time during high school while also buying and fixing cars to resell for profits to make $35k by the age 18
Just because students get aid doesn't mean that the individual going to college is poor, it means that the individuals PARENTS are poor. Middle class gets affect the most & ends up with the most debt , they make enough money to pay rent, bills etc.. so in the eyes of the gov't their child doesn't need aid. SO what happens? The middle class student has to work and use that money to pay for college tuition, take out LOANS from the bank/ credit card companies like discover that have to be paid back. This leave them in HUGE DEBTS. Poor students who in the eyes of the government ARE too poor get financial aid and the gov't covers their tuition fees. These students don't have to pay anything back to the gov't and the money they make working is all pocketed. Now you might think "they need the money they pocket to help pay bills around the house" false, the parents have survived eighteen years without help from their child they could wait another two-four years, parents who truly care about their child's education would agree. Also if you are a middle class student, have not gotten a scholarship, can't get financial aid then do the smart thing and go to a community college to get an AA degree for $2500 per semester instead of going to a 4year university paying $6500 per semester. Once you graduate with an AA degree then you get a job in your major with your AA degree making a hell of a lot more money than you were working part-time (Most people think that jobs will only accept you if you have a BA .. FALSE. Do some research on your major and see what they accept.) THEN you go to a 4-year university to get a BA, then Masters then PH.D depending on your major & how far you want to go. This is why i truly don't feel sorry for poor people, instead of doing things on instinct think first for what is the most financially stable plan.
This all goes back too the NEED of cutting financial aid. If we were to cut the financial aid that the gov't gives the poor to attend college that $2500 tuition fee per semester (for community colleges) would DROP to $1500 per semester (In 2009 tuition for a community college in NY was $1800 per semester, imaging how much lower it can go if we cut government aid) obviously scholarships and loans ill still be around for those how need it but it will be available to more people. Saving $1500 while working part time 20hrs a week for $9hr only takes about 2 1/2 months while the semester lasts 5 months (fall) 4 months (spring) 2 months (summer) which means you ill have roughly (in 5months time frame) $2,000 to spend or save for next semester after you paid college tuition for one semester. I feel like people don't know ho to do math anymore. The thing i hate the most is while the mid class and richer class pay for themselves the money that gets taken out for taxes (some of it) is used to help the "poorer" students who work and profit from their money to attend college for FREE.
If you still don't understand how DROPPING AID helps our economy and helps mid class and poorer classes all be equal then i suggest you take some economics classes or go to the doctor since your brain isn't working full-capacity.
Does insulting everyone else here right off the bat with comments like this "Most of you are too ignorant to see why dropping financial aid helps" and "go to the doctor since your brain isn't working full-capacity" make your argument more valid? Does it make you superior in any way? People are more inclined to listen to what you have to say when you act respectful instead of coming off like Skippy The Wonder Douche. You're child (and I do mean child) of privilege, so be grateful and quit acting like you earned it yourself and that you are better than everyone, because you are not. What real world experiences do you have to be able to talk to others like that and to look down on so many that you don;t know, and to be so cocky. You're coming across as an arrogant affluent brat. Oh and before you rip on me as a loser and/or leech, I've been semi-retired living on the ocean in Australia for a while now- WITH ZERO SUPPORT FROM MY PARENTS-NONE
YES MY PARENTS PAY FOR MY TUITION BUT EVEN IF THEY COULDN'T PAY IT I WOULD BE ABLE TO PAY WITHOUT A PROBLEM BECAUSE I WAS PREPARED . THEY CHOSE TO PAY FOR ME SO I CAN HAVE EVEN MORE MONEY SAVED. So your arguments saying "i have everything handed to me" is a joke. I worked hard for 2 years working part-time during high school while also buying and fixing cars to resell for profits to make $35k by the age 18
So?
First of all, you're a "taker" just like the people you whine about because your parents paid for your college.
Second, $35,000 will pay for ONE years of schooling at a typical college - what about the other 3? Oh, that's right - back to mommy and daddy or financial aid.
Third, are you still unable to understand how many people - poor people - do not have the opportunities you have had? Time to be honest with yourself - You were "BUYING and fixing cars" as a teenager. Do you honestly think the average dirt-poor person who's lucky to have enough money to feed themselves is going to be able to afford to BUY and fix cars in their free time? Of course not!
Look, kid, here are the facts - you had it good. Even if your parents didn't pay for your college, you were still in far better shape financially than any poor person and probably even some middle class people. To your credit, you took advantage of the situation and made some good money off of it. Good for you - but to pretend that "if I can do it, so can anyone!" is simply folly. Many people do NOT have the same opportunities as you, and to deny them a future because offering them financial aid might cost you a few bucks is cruel, selfish, and heartless.
You're too young to understand it now, but there will come a time when you're old and "useless" and nothing but an expense on society. Are you willing to be "put down" when that time comes? And it could come sooner than you think - all it takes is once accident or illness to bankrupt you and leave you a crippled shell for the rest of your days... Try not to be judgmental of those less fortunate than you lest you end up fully understanding their plight the hard way.
I was really taking this thread seriously (perhaps a misguided person) until the last response. The "Oh yes... I have money but if I were poor I'd still be doing just as well..." response. You could have always told your parents to keep their money.
I don't know what its like to live through life in a struggle but I got a taste of it recently. I don't know what its like to walk in a poor man's shoes.... REALLY Walk in their shoes. So I refuse to generalize and marginalize that population. What I do believe in is that we don't live in isolation. We all benefit when society as a whole grows and lives to its fullest potential. I'm all for helping those who wish to better themselves... .this means obtaining training, skills, and education.
In fact, I believe certain skills, education, and training should be hugely subsidized.. even free (some countries do so). Especially skills and education that are deemed necessary and needed by our society today. We need teachers? Let's train teachers. We need metal workers to help rebuild our aging infrastructure... let's train metal workers. If those subsidized programs don't appeal to you, you either study what you want on your own dime or study afterwards finishing/working those programs. Again on your own dime
The poor is everyone's problem. Some of them are hard working families. Don't confuse the poor with being lazy and entitled. Sure the lazy exist but don't apply it to the wider population. We all know that everything goods and services have a market value. Some of these working poor just happen to have a skill set that doesn't hold market value. They didn't have the opportunity or mommy and daddy with money.
If we don't help open up opportunity to those that seek it.. we will surely pay for it in welfare.
First of all, you're a "taker" just like the people you whine about because your parents paid for your college.
Second, $35,000 will pay for ONE years of schooling at a typical college - what about the other 3? Oh, that's right - back to mommy and daddy or financial aid.
Third, are you still unable to understand how many people - poor people - do not have the opportunities you have had? Time to be honest with yourself - You were "BUYING and fixing cars" as a teenager. Do you honestly think the average dirt-poor person who's lucky to have enough money to feed themselves is going to be able to afford to BUY and fix cars in their free time? Of course not!
Look, kid, here are the facts - you had it good. Even if your parents didn't pay for your college, you were still in far better shape financially than any poor person and probably even some middle class people. To your credit, you took advantage of the situation and made some good money off of it. Good for you - but to pretend that "if I can do it, so can anyone!" is simply folly. Many people do NOT have the same opportunities as you, and to deny them a future because offering them financial aid might cost you a few bucks is cruel, selfish, and heartless.
You're too young to understand it now, but there will come a time when you're old and "useless" and nothing but an expense on society. Are you willing to be "put down" when that time comes? And it could come sooner than you think - all it takes is once accident or illness to bankrupt you and leave you a crippled shell for the rest of your days... Try not to be judgmental of those less fortunate than you lest you end up fully understanding their plight the hard way.
Great post.
Had to add that it's "unfair" to some that many had financial aid just for being poor. However, even if your parents made you pay for college, trust me, you're a lot better off still than those whose income were low enough to qualify for financial aid. You've probably been babied 15+ years of your life where your parents paid for your vacations when you were younger, your cell phone bill, your graduation gift, your car, your insurance, your expenses going out with your friends, your "fun" money. They probably paid for at LEAST one of those things. You think low income parents could afford those for their kids growing up? NO. I'm sure those kids who didn't have to pay would give up their "free education" for your life and having parents who could provide well for them growing up ANY DAY.
You know what else is unfair? People who are living in a country of opportunities and have the leisure to debate the "great" topic of financial aid while little kids are busy mining diamonds, walking miles for water, forced to kill, and forced to endure sufferings simply for being born in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wanna know what else is unfair? How we're born with eyes to see, hands to type comments, a brain to concoct thoughts while others had to do without it from the time they were born. How is it that we get to drive on nice roads when we/our parents only put in .00000000001% of the money that goes into building it? How is it that we get to enjoy free parks when we never paid more than .000000001% of the money that goes on in maintaining it? I can go on and on about how unfair and cruel life is, but...
Bottom line to everyone: Life isn't fair, accept it, move on, and you're be a lot happier rather than complaining on how it's unfair that so and so gets this and that. Truly, count your blessings and quit whining.
---PS: The OP might just be a troll and is laughing at how much attention this thread it getting, lol.
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