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even with the crash more folks bought low and sold lower. in fact more money is lost trying to buy low and sell high then any other mantra.
when markets fell 2000 points investors thought that was low. only thing was we still had 4000 more points to go on the downside.
with panic ,and stop losses triggering many ended up once again losing money trying to buy low and sell high.
in fact much of a whole generation of young investors were scared away and never came back .
if you want proof just look at the morningstar or dalbar small investor returns vs what the funds got. as a group small investors got much less.
what makes money more often than not is buy high and sell higher . a body in motion stays in motion until it hits something. the trend is your friend.
the odds of being that guy at the end of the line in an up trend who gets stuck holding the bag an unable to sell at a profit is slim.
on the other hand trying to catch that falling knife and predict what buy low means means can a loss with the very next market move.
the real issue is after you are fully invested the small amount of rebalancing you may do on a large portfolio really amounts to very little in the scheme of things.
your exact entry and exit points are all that matters and while you may gain a wee bit rebalancing in the dip the very next rebalance in an up trend may very well negate that if you rebalanced the winner taking some money out and it still stayed a winner and that money missed it.
while buy low sell high sounds great few actually pull it off .
Last edited by mathjak107; 07-10-2014 at 02:06 AM..
There's actually a (small) sadistic side of me that says yes, at least in terms of the housing market. I'd love to buy a home. I finally make decent money and have a job that I like. But the local housing market prices are exorbitant. There's no way, as a single person, I can afford the majority of homes nearby.
I hate to see any sort of malady inflicted on people just as much as the next person. And then there's that whole "what comes around goes around" mantra. But I can't help but say that there is a little piece inside of me that's rooting for my own selfish ends to be met by any means necessary.
Am I going to hell?
No, maybe not yet...but as they say, be careful what you wish for! There is a distinct possibility that your dream could turn into a real life nightmare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeo123
Tell me again about how 2008 hurt the rich and helped the lower class
Seriously, no market crash is ever permanent. The richer you are, you more likely you are to be able to weather the storm and buy in at the bottom. The poorer you are, the more likely that crash just got your hours cut or job eliminated, and as you pointed out, you're less likely to invest in the stock market, so you won't be able to ride it up either.
Last I checked, the rich were still rich after 2008. It was the poor who lost their houses.
This...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
while buy low sell high sounds great few actually pull it off.
I know I am. I have some cash and want to make some moves but am thinking of waiting for those rates to rise. I made some money buying low last recession and cant wait to do it again.
The Bn8nk, I cannot argue with your premise that those able and have the strategic wisdom to sufficiently increase their investment during a recession, are able to benefit from recessions’ general misfortune upon all others; but during periods of recession investors that are more dependent upon their current incomes are less able to sufficiently increase their investments.
Respectfully, Supposn
Within another group’s discussion of the federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate, a director of dietary declared the FMW rate increases induce a losses of wages’ purchasing powers which are aggregately net detrimental to wage earners. I believe this response to the “middle” manager is germane to this discussion thread:
“Mikelee81, Due to increases of the federal minimum wage rate, the purchasing powers of ALL wages somewhat benefit.
Directors of dietary increased wage amounts exceed but do not proportionally match the FMW rate’s benefits to the wages of the working poor.
Supervisors are more comfortable with the (false) belief that the reduced purchasing powers of their wages are due to the minimum wage; They cannot admit even to themselves their regrets are due to their subservient less docile workers somewhat increasing the difficulties of supervising and the reduction of supervisors’ social statuses.
The FMW rate is less a cause and more a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation. Annually pegging the minimum wage to the cost-price index would be economically beneficial to our nation”.
Tell me again about how 2008 hurt the rich and helped the lower class
Seriously, no market crash is ever permanent. The richer you are, you more likely you are to be able to weather the storm and buy in at the bottom. The poorer you are, the more likely that crash just got your hours cut or job eliminated, and as you pointed out, you're less likely to invest in the stock market, so you won't be able to ride it up either.
Last I checked, the rich were still rich after 2008. It was the poor who lost their houses.
ahem the ones that lost were the rich and the leeches of society.
the productive poor and productive didn't lose at all.
it was what came after their rich employers lost that affected them.
if you were remotely responsible and had actual skills then you didn't need the rich employers and were fine.
notice that more people had an opportunity to buy in low then at least for those that were RESPONSIBLE
also the FED back stopped the rich so the rich benefited the most from the market crash.
market manipulation at it's finest.
and whom hurt the most from the inflation of the stock market?
100% increases in prices for the poor and middle class basically
your saving of the rich hurt the poor the most
repeal the regulations that impede competition like stupid
like taxi licenses that cost millions to obtain.
or property laws that forbid tiny homes
or forbidding easily opening up small shops on a whim.
and other stupid laws.
you cannot even open up a lemonade stand without being fined as it is against the law.
after that you can whine and complain that the stock market MIGHT be the free market
when it really isn't
the stock market is nothing more than a fascism masking itself as capitalism.
note: FYI 70-80% of the market are now under the control of market manipulators using computers to trade for them.
the markets are fake to say the least
if you want to benefit from the market you basically have to read the intentions of the market manipulators.
and front run their own front running or insider trading.
otherwise the commoners will lose every single time they play long term.
for now they are still benefiting from robbing the people with 0% loans to the banks
and are seeking to extend the thievery
so the game of the stock market it is more like chess.
you need to think many steps ahead of what the thieves will do.
SIDE NOTE: DO WE REALLY NEED A FAKE ECONOMY BASED ON THE STOCK MARKET?
also news flash if it was not for the property laws.
values to make a home would be far below the prices set right now.
if you do it yourself:
you can easily make a tiny home with 10k or less
and a comfortable home with 20k-30k
if you hire someone:
then you might need to pay at least 50-100k
as it may take a full year to construct. and salary of 20-30 dollar per hour = 40-60k
still far far below the value people put on the market. NOT WORTH IT.
the property values forced up are from all the permits and hassle you need to go through to finally build it and then get taxed on it.
governments WANT HIGH PRICES to tax you more.
if you think the materials + labor are want make the home cost so much you are delusional
So you are hoping that an an economic maelstrom that destroys huge amount of social wealth, plunges tens or hundreds of millions of people around the world into poverty, creates long-term growth deficits, and almost certainly increases inequality... so that you can personally try to play the market from the bottom a second time?
kwhitegocubs has it figured out. The world has worked this way since time began. However, kwhitegocubs misses a key point. These bubbles are not real wealth. The tops are just as false as the bottoms. They cannot prevail because they are not based on real value. They are based on speculation, just like a lottery ticket. Somebody will win, but most will lose, just as they did in 2008.
ahem the ones that lost were the rich and the leeches of society.
the productive poor and productive didn't lose at all.
it was what came after their rich employers lost that affected them.
if you were remotely responsible and had actual skills then you didn't need the rich employers and were fine.
notice that more people had an opportunity to buy in low then at least for those that were RESPONSIBLE
also the FED back stopped the rich so the rich benefited the most from the market crash.
market manipulation at it's finest.
and whom hurt the most from the inflation of the stock market?
100% increases in prices for the poor and middle class basically
your saving of the rich hurt the poor the most
repeal the regulations that impede competition like stupid
like taxi licenses that cost millions to obtain.
or property laws that forbid tiny homes
or forbidding easily opening up small shops on a whim.
and other stupid laws.
you cannot even open up a lemonade stand without being fined as it is against the law.
after that you can whine and complain that the stock market MIGHT be the free market
when it really isn't
the stock market is nothing more than a fascism masking itself as capitalism.
note: FYI 70-80% of the market are now under the control of market manipulators using computers to trade for them.
the markets are fake to say the least
if you want to benefit from the market you basically have to read the intentions of the market manipulators.
and front run their own front running or insider trading.
otherwise the commoners will lose every single time they play long term.
for now they are still benefiting from robbing the people with 0% loans to the banks
and are seeking to extend the thievery
so the game of the stock market it is more like chess.
you need to think many steps ahead of what the thieves will do.
SIDE NOTE: DO WE REALLY NEED A FAKE ECONOMY BASED ON THE STOCK MARKET?
also news flash if it was not for the property laws.
values to make a home would be far below the prices set right now.
if you do it yourself:
you can easily make a tiny home with 10k or less
and a comfortable home with 20k-30k
if you hire someone:
then you might need to pay at least 50-100k
as it may take a full year to construct. and salary of 20-30 dollar per hour = 40-60k
still far far below the value people put on the market. NOT WORTH IT.
the property values forced up are from all the permits and hassle you need to go through to finally build it and then get taxed on it.
governments WANT HIGH PRICES to tax you more.
if you think the materials + labor are want make the home cost so much you are delusional
Apparently you aren't close to retirement age. Hubby and I saw our retirement savings drop by 1/2 and it scared us to death, and now finally when we are ready to retire things have gotten better. But we would never recover from another drop like that. Neither one of us have a pension to look forward to, SS and retirement accounts are all we have. We have a nice savings, and we live a low to moderately low cost lifestyle, but savings cut in 1/2 would kill us.
Just keep an eye on the world. When gas hit $4 a gallon I knew it would suck the life out of our consumer economy, so I moved all my stocks into bonds. When the crash hit, I had no idea that there would be a banking crisis, but it helped a lot. Interest rates tanked, which meant bonds were yielding 10% to 12% a year. When the stock market lost 50% of its value, I moved money back into stocks and tripled my retirement account. Now that I'm retired, I have moved most of my money out of stocks again, into more conservative investments. "Buy and hold" is only successful if you can reinvest dividends into stock purchases with no broker fee.
I know I am. I have some cash and want to make some moves but am thinking of waiting for those rates to rise. I made some money buying low last recession and cant wait to do it again.
As other posters have stated, part of me wishes that this would occur so I could passively ride the market to recovery (SPY has a 5-yr annual return of nearly 20%, and I'm still kicking myself for missing it back in 2009 ).
With that said, I find this mindset extremely scary in the sense that it distorts my worldview into thinking that the financial markets are merely money games which have no real bearing on the world economy. I'm just taking advantage of market inefficiencies, right?
As I am currently interning in the financial sector, I know this worldview is all too easy to accept when the markets are neatly quantified in a Bloomberg terminal. However, hearing about the horrible foreclosure stories, retirement account implosions, and mass lay-offs has definitely opened my eyes to the cataclysmic effects of economic turmoil. So no, I'm not hoping for another 2007 in any way, shape, or form.
Last edited by Middling Swordsman; 07-10-2014 at 08:33 AM..
[quote=Supposn;35588333]The Bn8nk, I cannot argue with your premise that those able and have the strategic wisdom to sufficiently increase their investment during a recession, are able to benefit from recessions’ general misfortune upon all others; but during periods of recession investors that are more dependent upon their current incomes are less able to sufficiently increase their investments.
Respectfully, Supposn
I recall my mother’s reply when asked “Remember 25 cents per pound steaks?” was “Yes; and no one had a quarter”.
I recall my mother’s reply when asked “Remember 25 cents per pound steaks?” was “Yes; and no one had a quarter”.
Respectfully, Supposn
That's an awesome response
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