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Old 07-17-2014, 09:48 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 6,193,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
We gave them $trillions and America is for sale. People seem to get upset by real estate, but that's trivial. We can always build new buildings. When we sell our copper mines, that's it. .....
This may be a little off topic regarding real estate but here's one man who was determined.

Short version
Bassett Historical Center Events

In-depth version
Picking Up The Pieces: Still making it in America - Roanoke.com
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:13 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,606,267 times
Reputation: 3769
This country's "leaders" over the course of decades now have successfully sold this country out to special interests.

It's only a matter of time before they come to get what they've purchased from these people.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:35 AM
 
1,588 posts, read 2,306,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
This country's "leaders" over the course of decades now have successfully sold this country out to special interests.

It's only a matter of time before they come to get what they've purchased from these people.
What would that look like?

When they come to get vast companies, real estate and natural resources.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:43 AM
 
Location: DFW/Texas
922 posts, read 1,103,887 times
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As just a regular person with a blue-collar-working husband, I can say with certainty that the Chinese population is pouring into So Cal and buying real estate up like a Monopoly board. We've lost out on several houses because of "cash buyers" and then we hear and see the influx of Chinese into the neighborhoods. These cash buyers have made it almost impossible for real American citizens to buy a house in several types of neighborhoods. Every real estate agent I've talked to in the last several years is astonished at the amount of cash buyers from overseas, mainly from China; we even get mailers from agents detailing how they've been selling to "investors from overseas" and that if we sold our home we'd get top dollar from one of those investors! Those real estate agents can suck it, in my opinion. Here's an article from last month that states that 22 BILLION of CA real estate was sold to Chinese investors/citizens who paid all cash.

$22 Billion in California Homes Sold to Chinese All-Cash Buyers - Mike Shedlock - Townhall Finance Conservative Columnists and Financial Commentary - Page 1

I also just heard that the city of Arcadia, CA (where my great-uncle lived for 60 years and after he died my father sold his tiny house for 1.25 million- to a Chinese cash buyer, of course) passed an ordinance that no one under the age of 21 could buy a house. Apparently, the city is trying to discourage the people from overseas who send their children to attend college here, where the parents give the kids huge amounts of money to purchase houses and then the whole family from China, etc, move here. Whether or not this is true, I don't know, but I can't say that I disagree with it.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:08 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,207,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Its amazing that anyone could be more hopelessly naive than "Americans" until that is we find the likes of you. If you are talking about a doctor or an engineer they can make anywhere from the high 5 digits to 300k. However most big money is involved in real estate ,finance and mineral rights all more or less branches of government. This is especially the case in state capitalism. The problem stems in that very few people in the middle class actually know very wealthy people.


Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%
Membership in this elite group is likely to come from being involved in some aspect of the financial services or banking industry, real estate development involved with those industries, or government contracting. Some hard working and clever physicians and attorneys can acquire as much as $15M-$20M before retirement but they are rare.


And we will not even mention that physicians are also highly regulated controlling the supply of them. And attorneys make laws.

Money is kind of like a speedometer. At the very low and very high level its very inaccurate. Going from 30 to 45 mph is pretty accurate, just like a high school drop out accurately reflects poverty relative to an engineering degree. However 1 input of labor only goes so far. Real wealth comes from some form of appropriation and one way or another , da guberment.
You just don't understand my points and we aren't arguing about the same things or from the same goals. This is how a lot of these things go. Everyone tries to manipulate the society and its a game rules. That is how things work most of the time.

I think people with your views have a false sense of hope. As people criticize the status quo, they seem to believe in some utopian ideals like democracy that somehow will solve these problems that stem from human nature. Then of course, whatever revolution there was, the society becomes the same old ways again. Human nature doesn't change. Even If the Green Party gets in charge of the United States, this country is still always going to be about the desire for power and wealth. It'd simply be a new set of winners and losers. Whatever label and political schools, corruption and greed are a given.

You personally may be able to resist corruption, but you can't do that to other humans. They come in all shapes, colors, and beliefs. They do not necessarily share much interest.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:00 PM
 
20,589 posts, read 19,251,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
You just don't understand my points and we aren't arguing about the same things or from the same goals. This is how a lot of these things go. Everyone tries to manipulate the society and its a game rules. That is how things work most of the time.
What point? All you did was state a very tired cliche` of what many Americans may or may not understand, and then proceeded to offer one of the most naive one of them all, ironically ,that rich people are merely successful people who have bubbled up to the top of out fully functional, meritocratic state.

Quote:
I think people with your views have a false sense of hope. As people criticize the status quo, they seem to believe in some utopian ideals like democracy that somehow will solve these problems that stem from human nature.
What are you even talking about? Where have I done this? In what have have I been promoting utopian, democratic ideals? Show me the link.


Quote:
Then of course, whatever revolution there was, the society becomes the same old ways again. Human nature doesn't change. Even If the Green Party gets in charge of the United States, this country is still always going to be about the desire for power and wealth. It'd simply be a new set of winners and losers. Whatever label and political schools, corruption and greed are a given.
Which was my point. You on the other hand suggested that Americans were stupid for suspecting that wealth is often accumulated without the merits we supposedly embrace.

Quote:
You personally may be able to resist corruption, but you can't do that to other humans. They come in all shapes, colors, and beliefs. They do not necessarily share much interest.
Which is why I never recall ever promoting democratic ideals. If anything I have condemned them. Did I not just recently quote Montesquieu arguing that loosely associated tribalism accounts for the defects in human nature best?

In that case I did not add one of my many examples like the Scottish clearances that resulted after Culloden where it turns out that the best defense for the little folk is for their leader to have powerful enemies. Soon as the Highland Chiefs made peace with London, the commoners were tossed off the land to make room for sheep.

Is that what you would call my reckless and naive optimism ?
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:03 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,207,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
What point? All you did was state a very tired cliche` of what many Americans may or may not understand, and then proceeded to offer one of the most naive one of them all, ironically ,that rich people are merely successful people who have bubbled up to the top of out fully functional, meritocratic state.

What are you even talking about? Where have I done this? In what have have I been promoting utopian, democratic ideals? Show me the link.


Which was my point. You on the other hand suggested that Americans were stupid for suspecting that wealth is often accumulated without the merits we supposedly embrace.

Which is why I never recall ever promoting democratic ideals. If anything I have condemned them. Did I not just recently quote Montesquieu arguing that loosely associated tribalism accounts for the defects in human nature best?

In that case I did not add one of my many examples like the Scottish clearances that resulted after Culloden where it turns out that the best defense for the little folk is for their leader to have powerful enemies. Soon as the Highland Chiefs made peace with London, the commoners were tossed off the land to make room for sheep.

Is that what you would call my reckless and naive optimism ?
And who said the rich did it through a meritocratic system? You are arguing with a straw man of extreme perfection?. Americans are not stupid for suspecting that the wealth of the rich can be accumulated without merit.

I would say that here and everywhere, people internationally support and intentionally remain complicit with a corrupt system, as long as they are milking some of the system. If opposing the system gets one more, then one would oppose it. If one perceives that supporting a system gets one more,then one is reluctant to oppose it. A deep knowledge of the system is precisely what's required to participate, as big medium or small players.

Different people have different interests. Relatively Affluent people don't expect to be as rich as whatever super rich person. But they certainly don't want to join the middle or below. It's not in their interest. They don't want to risk anything as they have basically made it. You need not tell them how this dark system works. After all They have been working on it for years.

Many americans believe that the alternative the far left wants would be much worse in the long run. Many low aspiration people in America are also milking the system. It's just lower stakes.

In addition, even of poor people natively believe they would get rich, these beliefs always exist in societies. It's unrealistic (and naive) to expect a society without naive people. We are always surrounded by people we disgust, dislike, and disapprove. I am tired of judging them or trying to convert them. Whatever they believe is their tea, they drink it. Good luck.

Last edited by Costaexpress; 07-17-2014 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 26,675,260 times
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The problem is not the Chinese, it's the central bankers at the Fed. This is just free money coming back to the US to ruin our lives. End the Fed and the Chinese have no more dollars to ruin your lives with.
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:02 PM
 
20,589 posts, read 19,251,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
And who said the rich did it through a meritocratic system?

You did:

Quote:
For many Americans today, it seems like anyone who is a business person or has an affluent life is a criminal
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:46 PM
 
1,858 posts, read 3,597,432 times
Reputation: 2151
Actually, for him it is irrelevant how they got their money. In the case of these Chinese investors, well over 90% of their wealth is ill-gotten, proceeds from the corruption which is endemic in Chinese society, because it is practically impossible to build this kind of wealth in China without it. But for him, as long as they spend that money here, that makes it magically wonderful and win-win, even for American families now priced out of real estate markets in their own cities. I guess we should welcome the drug cartels with open arms as well. Maybe that's the way for America to barrel out of the recession: become the new money-laundering destination of the world's financial criminals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
You did:
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