Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, it's certainly possible the narrow down your list of requirements to a list 50 pages long - but what do you suppose those that don't want/can't afford to pay it do? Do they compromise and find the characteristics most important to them? You may be in a financial position that allows you not to compromise - that's great, but probably not representative of most situations. Most parents can't afford to be specific enough to narrow down "outdoors time", "conflict policies" and "free play" issues.
And the fact that you are not a parent is blatantly clear. Yes, people need to make compromises, but it doesn't mean that these factors aren't still considerations and important to the parent when making decisions on childcare, no matter what they can afford.
For me, things like discipline and conflict resolution, how much time they get to be outdoors, and free play are all important considerations because I know how important these things are to a young child developmentally. If I have two daycares who are otherwise reasonably equitable, but going with the one that best addresses these concerns means having to pay a $10 activity fee or whatever over the slightly cheaper option, then I'll pay the extra if it's still within my budget.
Parents need to consider more than the bottom dollar when it comes to their child(ren).
..and please, don't start in with the special snowflake, need for the best of the best nonsense because it's not even close to the same thing.
What do you do when your toddler is too sick for daycare? How do you control your child getting sick from another kid at daycare?
I don't get sick time off but I do have a lot of Personal Time Off (Ive been with the company a long time). When we plan our year, we always set aside at least 1/3rd off all my PTO for when I am sick or one of our kids are sick. For the most part, our management understands that sick kids are fact of family life that they deal with as best as they can. My wife only gets paid when she works.... so its natural that I take the brunt of the sick kid days.
I will say this though.... not everyone is as fortunate (jerks for management, bad attitudes towards employees and their families, no PTO, nor sick, etc...)
Yes, it's certainly possible the narrow down your list of requirements to a list 50 pages long - but what do you suppose those that don't want/can't afford to pay it do?
They struggle.. each find their own way..
One family I know, moved towards grandparents for help. Another took a chance with someone they found through a friend or a friend.... risky. But none of this is ideal and certainly doesn't mean that having a child is in-expensive.
When times were good and employers were more inclined to keep employees happy, one I worked for provided a room for in-house day care at work. The families were responsible for staffing and providing the room with toys and such. Those days are over.
And the fact that you are not a parent is blatantly clear. Yes, people need to make compromises, but it doesn't mean that these factors aren't still considerations and important to the parent when making decisions on childcare, no matter what they can afford.
The art of compromising doesn't mean other things aren't important. It's not an all or nothing proposition.
Quote:
For me, things like discipline and conflict resolution, how much time they get to be outdoors, and free play are all important considerations because I know how important these things are to a young child developmentally.
Yes, they may be important in some way, but I'm sure there are centers that can do everything better than the one you're at....possibly much better. You could uproot your family and move closer to one of these centers....because development is of uber importance. However, you have chosen to compromise in some form or fashion. You have chosen to stick with a place that's in a certain state, city, close to home, close to work, etc, etc.
One family I know, moved towards grandparents for help. Another took a chance with someone they found through a friend or a friend.... risky. But none of this is ideal and certainly doesn't mean that having a child is in-expensive.
Is it possible to greatly reduced the risk in these situations...perhaps to even less than a center? I know some at-home sitters have a webcam running for the entire day so parents can check in at any time.
Most of this was included in my budget several pages back. Around here, you can't really buy a house with less than 2 bedrooms so housing cost is a moot point. Food cost will depend on how much the child eats and what type of food is bought. A child can be added to most healthcare plans for $100/month. If the parents don't make enough, they may even get it free. Transportation (gas) cost will depend on the car.
I want realistic, practical and no fluff expenses.
1. Without a child one could live in a 1 bedroom apartment. in most areas of the nation, but maybe not yours, that is a big financial difference. Say $300/month more.
2. Food cost of $200/mo. is a reasonable estimate, it can vary somewhat and obviously takeout is much more expensive.
3. clothing and other household retail purchases will run $100/month or so, more if you're not frugal.
4. Daycare is expensive whether you like it or not. $800/mo. is on the modest side - and $1000 or $1200/mo. is not unheard of. The tax benefit is a deduction or exemption, not a credit. it will only cover a tiny bit of that. If your response is relatives can help, you should return the favor somehow. Time costs money too - don't ignore that. Any time spent doing unpaid work results in lost income.
5. "Child added to most healthcare plans" - depends on the employer. $100/month is on the low side and does not account for deductibles, co-pays, or dental emergencies over the coverage cap.
6. Gas is not equal to the cost of driving. Every mile you put on a vehicle also increases maintenance and depreciation. Figure 35 cents per mile minimum, probably more.
7. A full time job with the aforementioned health benefits, plus caring for a child, will make it much more difficult to find the time to do home maintenance yourself. Figure an additional $100/month on hired assistance or services.
8. A bigger vehicle may be needed, especially after the second or third child, although less of a concern if you only have one. Bigger vehicle burns more fuel and has higher depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs as it is heavier and all its parts are bigger.
9. You yourself made the argument "Why don't parents pay off the medical school loans". So to avoid being a moocher or selfish, if you expect that parental assistance, you should be willing to do the same for your own kids. Figure $300/month to the college savings account. (see your post, #321).
If you are realistic, a child is very expensive. This is why we accuse you of being in fantasy land. If you want to have a serious discussion and be taken seriously, you need to account for all these things. This is not being pessimistic, it is being realistic.
1. Without a child one could live in a 1 bedroom apartment. in most areas of the nation, but maybe not yours, that is a big financial difference. Say $300/month more.
2. Food cost of $200/mo. is a reasonable estimate, it can vary somewhat and obviously takeout is much more expensive.
3. clothing and other household retail purchases will run $100/month or so, more if you're not frugal.
4. Daycare is expensive whether you like it or not. $800/mo. is on the modest side - and $1000 or $1200/mo. is not unheard of. The tax benefit is a deduction or exemption, not a credit. it will only cover a tiny bit of that. If your response is relatives can help, you should return the favor somehow. Time costs money too - don't ignore that. Any time spent doing unpaid work results in lost income.
5. "Child added to most healthcare plans" - depends on the employer. $100/month is on the low side and does not account for deductibles, co-pays, or dental emergencies over the coverage cap.
6. Gas is not equal to the cost of driving. Every mile you put on a vehicle also increases maintenance and depreciation. Figure 35 cents per mile minimum, probably more.
7. A full time job with the aforementioned health benefits, plus caring for a child, will make it much more difficult to find the time to do home maintenance yourself. Figure an additional $100/month on hired assistance or services.
8. A bigger vehicle may be needed, especially after the second or third child, although less of a concern if you only have one. Bigger vehicle burns more fuel and has higher depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs as it is heavier and all its parts are bigger.
9. You yourself made the argument "Why don't parents pay off the medical school loans". So to avoid being a moocher or selfish, if you expect that parental assistance, you should be willing to do the same for your own kids. Figure $300/month to the college savings account.
If you are realistic, a child is very expensive. This is why we accuse you of being in fantasy land. If you want to have a serious discussion and be taken seriously, you need to account for all these things. This is not being pessimistic, it is being realistic.
1. Technically one could still live in a 1 br with a child (first couple years anyway). I will give you this point for those in the heart of large cities that never planned on buying a home, though. I'm also under the assumption that most people want to own their own home (or at least rent a home...not apartment) one day regardless of children. I wanted to own a 3br/2ba home at 20 yrs old. Resale value on a 1br is horrible.
2. $200/month sounds reasonable.
3. I don't see $100/month on clothing/toiletries. I probably average $25/month as an adult.
4. This is pretty much what the whole debate has been about. I will consider myself lucky to have parents/aunts/cousins that would love to keep a child (parents would probably adopt the kid if I let them!). In the south, solid childcare at a center will cost around $120/week (averaging out the infant/toddler rates). After school care will run about $3500/yr (that includes summers). We can debate it, but that's what it cost here. Tax benefits are 35% up to $3000 or $1050/yr. Their is also the child tax credit which is $1000 and the ability to offset some tax liability by claiming a dependent.
5. Yes, this is a variable. $100/month seems like a good average though. Depending on income levels, one could recieve a government subsidy.
6. Yes, vehicles need maintenance, but this is really splitting hairs and wildly variable. Per mile cost are likely MUCH less for someone driving a Toyota Corolla vs Chevy Suburban. We would also need to make an assumption about how much of a person's driving is directly related to their child (i.e. dropping a child off at daycare on the way to work doesn't count).
7. My parents raised two children and never paid for basic home maintenance - this is basically what Saturdays are for.
8. My parents drove a 2 door Datsun 510, 2-door Buick Regal, Ford F100 truck, 2 door Saturn SC2, Toyota Camry, Buick Century and a few other smallish vehicles while we were growing up. The idea that people need some big honkin' SUV or van for a kid or two is something I just don't understand. A basic 4-door economy car is perfect for kids (Honda Fit anyone?).
9. Paying for college is not necessary. If parents have a few extra coins to throw in a college fund - fine. However, it's not something they should feel obligated to do or upset if they can't. My comment about why didn't the parents pay for med school was sort of rhetorical. The poster said parents should pay for college yet he said med students come out with ~$200k in debt. Thus, I asked why their parents didn't pay it.
Expensive is subjective, but from everything mentioned in this thread, I would estimate the cost to raise a small child in the south can cost less than $8k/year. This cost will likely drop to ~$6k when they start school and less than $5k/yr once they enter their teen years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
